In my search for an ultralight blank/ fly blank, I came across the CCS info for the Batson F763-2. Can anyone tell me why there is such a big difference in the data for this blank? I've seen everything from an ERN of 2.08 to 4.01 with 8 results for what appears to be the same blank. Is this a difference in the measuring process, a difference in manufacture (scrim, old vs new) or is there that much difference in tolerance. Appreciate any help I can get. The reason that I'm asking is that I'm searching for a moderate to slow action 2 piece 0-2wt that is 7.5 ft. For those of you who helped before, still considering CTS blank, dropping the butt section off a longer 3 piece rod in heavier weight, a Dorber blank or an old 2 piece 2wt 7'6" St Croix SCIII if anyone has one they're willing to part with (hint, hint) I saw the Batson with the ERN of 2.08 and it really peaked my interest, but don't want to end up with a blank that's closer to a 4wt.

There is always some variation between blanks of the same model. The models are also "tweaked" during their life and may change the outcome as well. It's not an exact process although most manufacturers control it as well as they can. I think you are probably seeing more variation in measurement process by the contributors, with a little contribution from blank variation. Where the blank is held and ensuring a level blank probably are the biggest contributors to measurement difference.

If you drop off the highest and lowest measurement, you'll most likely get one between 2.8 and 3.8 ERN, so plan for blank in the neighborhood of a little over 3. If you're looking for something with a high end of 2, I would keep searching.

Terry

Thanks, Terry.
That makes a lot of sense. Drop the highest and lowest and take an average like any statistician would do. And still searching. If he would "settle" for a 4 piece blank it would open up all kind of possibilities. I did see the Pac Bay rainforest 2 7'6" 4wt has an ERN of 2.7 and is "moderate" but not sure if that would be an average ERN or a "fluke".

The CCS parameter that will describe the action, not the power, is the action angle. What was the variation in the action angle? I agree with deleting the lowest and highest and averaging the rest, for action angle as well as ERN. Compare the AA for the blanks you are investigating to the AA's for blanks that you are familiar with.

I believe for a 3 wt you should find the ERN to be something like 3.5, but can't remember the detailed data.

I know the application you're going for , and I think that any of the traditional action fly rod blanks will get what you want, and 3 wt is about right. Can you find CCS for the Amtak Matrix 7 1/2 foot 2 piece 3 wt blank? That's one that I have experience with for spinning, and I think it does very well for the application you have described. I have not measured it, but if you would like me to, respond. I plan to do it some time anyway.

By the way, one aspect of measuring CCS that some may be ignoring is that for all blanks, but especially fly blanks, and more so for low ERN fly blanks, you have to compensate for the "droop" of the rod after you have set the butt up level. If some measurers are doing this and others are not, variation in data between the two methods will be introduced. If the measurment is being made on a rod instead of a blank the weight of the guides will make the rod droop more than if it did not have guides, thus a difference between blanks and rods.

Michael, thank you as well. I think that you are right about the ERN of the blanks being midrange of the line rating like a 3wt should have an ERN of 3.5 as I know (please correct me if I read the CCS info stuff wrong). He is adamant about no "heavier" than a 2wt because of an article he read on extreme ultralight panfishing. He wouldn't mind going even lighter. If I'm not mistaken, the Amtak blank that you are talking about has an ERN of 4.01 and an action angle of 68. Neither one is the right "direction" for what this guy is wanting. But would love to see how it all corresponds with the data on the database. That's one reason I was excited to see some "light" 3wt info that put the Batson blank basically at a 2 wt with an AA of 55(maybe 56 can't remember right now). I did not know about the "adjust for drop" in my limited reading. And that makes a lot of sense on how it might dramatically alter the results (especially on lighter weight fly rods. Appreciate the info and your input. Thank you

"Droop" is part of the process. Never take the droop out. The butt should be level and the measurement taken from butt height, not "droop" height.

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Thanks for weighing in Tom, I'm learning bunches everyday thanks to you and the all the others who respond and are so willing to help. Michael, to correct myself the AA of that Batson F763-2 it varies from 62-65. Not nearly the amount of variation as the ERN.

Just purchased a CRB CIS78M rod blank to build for party boat fishing for tuna out of San Diego. Would appreciate a recommendation on guide sizes and spacing. I will use a star drag reel loadrd with 20-25 # line with this rod. Thanks in advance for inputs.

Ray

Ray, you should start a new thread, this is not the place to add something out of context.

Ray, you might try posting a "new topic" from toward the top of the screen. It's doubtful that many will see your question as this is tied in on my thread about Common Cents System and not the main forum page. Good luck with your build!

I'll try to find time this week to check my Amtak. I would be surprised if its action angle is as high as 68, but I've been surprised before. The data won't lie.

Have you found a 2 weight blank in the 7 1/2-8 foot range? If I were to compromise on a rod for this build I would go long (7 1/2 minimum) with a 3 wt rather than short with a 2 or lower wt. I used to use short ultralights and never did achieve reliable hook sets. And they were a lot stiffer than what we are talking about. Longer favors better hook sets.

MHX has a 9 foot 2 wt blank. I think 9 is too long, but it is a 2 wt. If you cut it down I believe it will become more powerful and if I'm right, you may be back to a 3 wt.

TFO has a 6' 9" 1 wt for less than $100, but it's 4 piece. As someone already said, it can be a 2 piece with a couple drops of glue. It may be as close to what is requested as you're going to get. I'll bet it would be a honey of a panfish rod. Also a 7' 3" 2 wt which I think would be even better. See their finesse series. Put heavy guides on it an it will slow it a little, making it sloppier. :-)

The idea was to find a slow blank. If the blank is slow enough, it can be a little bit more powerful. But the mhx fly series are all fast. The f902 2piece is 3ERN 68AA. I called Dorber last year for their F1201 and despite the fact that it was/is probably the most interesting blank (10ft 1.3ERN 55AA) they have and probably the blank that gets people hooked as it fills a niche, serves people with something that basically, isn't offered, either because obviously it doesn't exist or it is hard to come by, it wasn't on stock. Apparently they don't run a small operation, they run a micro operation and I called in a moment when their manufacturer was away, in his holidays or something and on top of that, the blank was also in a process of change or upgrade. I don't know if the 'new' F1201 retains much of the old Dorber 10 ft 1wt attributes but at that price it might still be a classic AND more importantly a 1-weight blank that could be cut from the butt and built like that to result a 5ft+3ft 2piece staggered tip old fashioned ultralight rod. No other 3rd party stocks Dorber and I think only Dorber can help/answer questions as they probably know their stuff and supposedly they would tell which Dorber blank is recommended.

Michael, I'd love to know what you come up with on your Amtack blank, you can either message me or just add it to this thread. Been looking through what seems to be hundreds of blanks and I have found that both CTS and Dorber offer a 2 piece blank in that 7.5-8' length in a 2wt. There are a few others that offer 4 piece blanks. But the customer is against (at least as of now) anything more than a 2 piece blank. I talked with him about a building up a 3wt with a heavier guide train to soften the blank up, but this guy knows what he wants and I'm enjoying the search.

Razvan, I looked up Dorber and gave them a call. Apparently I had somewhat of the same issue with them. I had asked about the ultraweave blanks, like you suggested, they had currently stopped production because of losing an "ingredient" supplier and were contacting others to fill that need. He was supposed to let me know about the blank after he checked his inventory. Appreciate the heads up. Was the blank you got one of their standard blanks? (In case of them actually being out of the ultraweave series?) going to call them today.
Thanks to you both,
Jared

Jarad, the Amtak blank data surprises me. No substitute for data, right? AA 69, ERN 4.16 . The ERN is the same as a fast action fly rod I have that feels fast. This one does not feel anywhere as near as fast, but. . .

It would be interesting to know the CCS for the TFO Finesse series. Anyone have it?

Michael, thanks for measuring your Amtak blank. I didn't find any data for the 1wt or the 2wt Finesse series but did find the 7'9" 3wt. The ERN is 2.7 and the AA is 62. If I can talk him into a 4 piece blank, it fits the bill for a 2wt moderate action (and it's relatively inexpensive especially when compared to the Sage blanks). I hadn't looked before because he wanted no bigger than a 2wt.

Michael, also wondered how you set up your guide train on the fly blank spinning rod? I'm not having much luck with my searches... did you use a concept guide placement or 27x? how big was your stripper guide like a 16 or so? Any help would be appreciated. If you like, you can put it on this post or just email me...

I think on this rod I used a 20 first guide, but if I had it to do over, would probably do a KLH 16 (which were not then availab le). Nevertheless, it casts great with a 20 Fugi Y. I used 2 more reduction guides with 27X, then to size 3 micros. Keep in mind an ultralite will use small reels and light line. You can cheat down on guide sizes to keep it as light and sensitive as possible without sacrificing casting performance. I use 6# braid on mine with a short leader that does not get into the guides. But I'm sure 10-14 # nanofil will go through the guides very nicely. I think too many builders get tied into standard criteria forgetting that if they don't plan on using heavy line, they are probably over-guideing the rod.

Great. Was kinda thinking of starting with a size 16 "k"." Looks like he's going to go with a 0wt CTS so I'll be giving Herb a call in the next few days. It was what he wanted and in a 2 piece. I'll post pics of the build when I get her all finished up

Jared,

I've been watching this topic for a while now and see the topic is now on to guide layout. I built a 7" UL with a size 500 Shimano reel using the KR Concept guide train. My first guide was a 12H (19.2" from shaft end), 4.5H (25.25" from shaft end) following by 4.5's (choke point at 31" from shaft end) to the tip. I use 4# nanofil line and it is a dream to cast. I us it primarily for crappie fishing with small jigs.