Hi,

This is first post and the first of many questions ????. There is so much great information on here I have literally spent hours researching. I have read a lot about guide spacing and to be honest I really need to know what's the best to use these days. I had a look in the library at the new guide concept by Fuji and I like that method and it seems to be the latest and greatest. I am going to be using the Fuji concept guides so will get the group which best suits my length of rod. It is a 9.5ft rod so will use four guides in the reduction train starting with kl16h etc. Is it just a matter of lining these 4 guides up so they hit the line of the spool shaft so to speak?

Also I hear the first guide is meant to be at least half the diameter of your spool? My spool is 43mm I think, so that first guide doesn't quite satisfy that rule or is that irrelevant for this system? Also I hear the first guide is meant to be between 19 and 21" but I am yet to see if this will be true for my setup.

Thanks for looking

Sounds like your on your way to a guide train that you will refine by test casting. Only suggestion would be to get your first guide, the stripper guide, closer to the 1/2 diameter rule, look more toward a size 20 or 25, get both and test cast both, unless your going with the super titanium style, guides aren't that expensive.

General advice re butt guide size is to divide your reel spool diameter by 2 and then go up to the nearest. So for a spool of 43mm use a size 25 butt guide. As to spacing, Tom's article in the library is easy to follow. Like Ray suggests, tape your guides to the blank and test cast before binding but I have failed to follow this myself many times. Before test casting you can also sight along the rod to see if the guides line up like a target. That will get you in the ball park

Hmmm, that throws a spanner in the works. You sure I can't get away with the group starting with the 16 as suggested on the Fuji page?

The only way to know if Fuji's recommendation will work is to test cast the rod. You MAY be able to get away with it but you will likely have to move the butt guide out beyond 19-21" (as you posted). When you do that you MAY find that you will experience line slap between the reel and the butt guide - not due to the diameter of the ring but due to the height of the guide ring off the blank. Again the only way to know is to set it up & test out the 16mm,

The lighter, thinner and/or more supple your line is the smaller ring can be employed in your butt guide. So you may well get away with a 16, depending on the line you're going to be using.

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What size reel and what lb line will you be using? A 16 stripper at 19 inches sounds like a small reel on a 9.5 foot rod. That set up is "normal" for a 2500-3000 series reel casting 15# braid or light (10lb) mono

This is an Interesting conversation. Have we all just assumed he is building a spinning rod?

Half the diameter of the spool would be a BIG casting stripper... ;)

Yes, I did assume that this was a spinning rod since the post referenced Fuji New Guide Concept - and KL16H .

The rod will be used for bait drifting so casting very small weights. The reel will be a certate 2004. It also mentions to place the choke at 0.45 x the distance from the stripper to the tip? I might first try the 16 stripper as if I use a 20 or 25 I have to upsize all guides in the guide train as they work as a group? Or can I just use the bigger stripper?

Has anyone had success using the 16 stripper?

easy thing to do is with the Handle on
Put the reel on - Take the spool off - Using a Streight edge line up the shaft of the spool and where it touches the blank is where the chock guide goes

Also mulitply 27 times spool Face OD to find where the chock goes They will probably be the same Nothing figures on the tip to anything From the chock which is the First of your Runner guides to the tip

Like read put the guides Runners every 5 " one or two after the butt in between the chocker

Stactic test and test cast Addjust sizes to see if you get more casting distance
A lot of playing but wealth it

If this comes up for you A good read on static testing
[anglersresource.net]

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2014 05:29PM by bill boettcher.

Ok, 27 x the spool face diameter gives me a choke point of about 45". When I put the reel on I put it on the table edge and that gave me a choke point of 33" and if using the kl16h that would sit at only 14.5" from the end of the spool shaft. That has to be too close doesn't it? Maybe its just the reel has too much angle on it (Daiwa certate 2004) but the NGC doesn't seem to work for it. I've done a lot more reading and found this that Jim Isling wrote:

(With braid to 20# the KL16H, KL8H, KL5.5M is, IMO, the best all around reduction train going for spinning rods 6'9" to 7'6" in light to medium heavy using 2500 to 3000 Series reels. I always test cast but this set-up is so solid I sometimes wonder if I need to. 16H at 19 inches, Choke 21 inches past the stripper. Bullseye the 8H and 5.5M...and don't forget to use the KB as your choker.)

Ive had a look at 3 of my other rods I have and the strippers are all 20-21" and chokes 23.5-25".

On my megabass the choke is 25" past the stripper. If I put a straight edge along those 3 reduction guides the point runs into the base of the choke guide. I also have a loomis and the choke point is 24.5" past the stripper but if I put a straight edge on the 3 reduction guides the straight edge hits the top of the choke guide? So could I ask which method is correct - bullseye reduction guides to the base of the choke point guide as in megabass rod or should the 2 reduction guides in between the stripper and choke hit the straight edge if the straight edge is sat on the stripper and reduction?

I would go to a KL20H to move the stripper out. It won't hurt anything I don't think and will give you good performance if you bump up to 30# braid or 12# mono for any reason.
I would stick with a four guide train: 20H, 10H, 7L, 6M

Position the 20H using the table edge. Now for a twist (This has proven very successful for us when all the rules go out the window): Put the choke the same distance from the stripper as the stripper is from the tip of the spool axle. In other words if it's 22 inches from spool axle tip to stripper, put the choke 22 inches past the stripper. Tape and test.

At 9.5 feet the .45 multiplier may push your choke further out than it needs to be for a "rapid choke" set up. The correlation between stripper position and reduction train length pops up over and over again in our tests. So often it is hard to ignore the coincidence. Try it and see what happens. It might be "KL-H specific", but I've seen it work again and again. If it works, remember...you heard it here first. ;)

Thanks for the response Jim. You say to use the 20h to push the stripper out but as I already mentioned I used the table edge and I got 14.5" with the 16h? If I use the 20h it will be even closer right?

Also, I will be using either 6lb mono or most likely 4-6lb braid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2014 07:03PM by Kris Wierzbicki.

So sorry Kris, you are right...don't know what I was thinking. With braid that light you can do a lot. Push the 16 out to around 20-inches, put the choke 20-inches beyond the stripper (to allow for a four guide reduction train, put it at 27-inches), bullseye the other reduction guides between the stripper and the choke and tape and test.

kriss
Unless you put the streight edge into the ring and not on top
I do this thinking of how gravidy will Tend to pull the line down Looking at vidios seemed to me the line was rubbing on the lower edge of the ring I figure this would help with this

You should get several sizes of guides and test cast different sizes to see how it casts
What you don't use you will have for another build

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2014 09:39AM by bill boettcher.

Thanks guys.

I will buy a selection of guides and tape and test a few different methods. Am I right in saying that when using 4-6lb braid I won't notice much difference unless things are totally out. Would it be better to use say 10lb mono?

I was trying to save a bit and buy only what I thought I needed as I'm getting the titanium torzites but I'll just get a few more and test.

I would use whatever line, roughly, that you plan to use on the finished outfit.

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Per Tom, testing with 10 mono would seem like a good compromise for this set up.