I just finished building a spinning rod using a MHX-HM-SJ781 Spin-Jig-Rod-Blank. I used Fuji titanium SIC, KR 16h, 8h, 5.5L, then 6, #5 TLSG fly guides to a TFCST 4.5 tip. I use the rod with a Shimano ci4 2500 spinning reel. I measured the stripper 161/2" from the top of the reel spool mounted in the reel seat. The next guide is 9" from stripper, next guide 8 1/2", then 6" to choke guide. 1st 3 guides make a nice "bullseye".

I spent a good amount of time test casting and changed the stripper to 16", 16 1/2 & 17" and adjusted the other 3 guides accordingly. 161/2 seemed to do best....

I built the rod as a drop shot/shaky head rod. I fished this rod for the first time last weekend and it casts horribly! I felt like I could barely get the 1/4 oz. shaky head 20 yards out.... I've never been a good test caster cause I hate wrapping and re-wrapping guides. Obviously I did something wrong cause this thing now casts like absolute junk. I've built spinners before that you can't even feel the line passing through the guides and it casts literally a country mile effortlessly.

There was no wind this day, brand new 8# test line and nothing outside of improper guide spacing that I can think of to cause this problem. Fishing from a boat.

Any suggestion on where to start with replacing the first 3-4 guides to get this rod to cast properly? I wouldn't think the runners have anything to do with my problem, but something has to change.

Thanks for any help

How large in diameter is the spool of that reel, and what size and type line are you using?

............

The battery is dead in my calipers but with a measuring tape, the top of the spool is ~1 13/16" across. I'm using brand new 8lb test yozuri hybrid "ultra soft" copolymer line, 0.11" diameter.

Assuming your blank is rated to throw 1/4 ounce, I'd suggest moving up to a high frame 20 for the butt guide and resetting the guides from there. The stripping guide should be a little further from the spool than you have it. I'd look at 19 to 21 inches.

..............

Thanks for the input Tom. The blank is rated to 5/16 oz lure weight. So, if I change to a KR 20h do you think I could keep the same KR 8h and then the 5.5L? Or would I need to change those guides as well?

Without having it in my hands I really can't say.

If you do this:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

It's going to cast about as well as it can cast.

...............

Thanks agin tom. I'll give this a try and see how the guides play out.

I appreciate your quick helpful responses.

-Mike

What you and Tom have discussing is the right approach. However, you do not have to wrap the guides on the blank to do the test casting. Place the guides where you want for test and TAPE them to the blank. Do the test casting and then changes the guides and test cast again. Good Luck.
Mike Blomme

Hi Mike,

Give Jim Ising a call at Anglers Resource. I had some problems doing my first KR Concept build. He was very patient, understanding, most knowledgeable and helpful. Due to his expertise and help my customer is thrilled with how his new rod casts. The design of this new rod allowed the finished rod to weigh in at 3.2 ounces.

Capt Neil Faulkner

On a 2500 I would use a 25 or 20 as the stripper guide. By using a 16 and having it too close to the reel face is causing part of your trouble. Most strippers are at the 20-22 inch mark.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

I agree with Rolly.
A size 25 high frame guide spaced at 20 inches from the reel face.
Then, 16, 10 and etc.

I would put the 2nd guide at 12 inches from the stripper guide.

Mike, I like to have my spinner guide sizes and placement so that when you are retrieving the line under slight pressure that the line touches virtually all sides of the first guide on retrieve. I have found that if the line only rubs on the top or bottom of the first guide, that the spacing is wrong, the guide is too small or too short.

Good luck

Hi guys,

With only 1 KR Concept under my belt I realize I still have a lot to learn before I reach my comfort zone. The blank is an ES 662, 6 1/2', 1/8-3/8 ounce lure and a small light weight reel. Sorry I don't remember the model.

TKLTG16H (striper guide) is 19" in front of the end of the spool shaft. TBKTG5 (choke guide) is 21" beyond the striper. TKLTG8H and TKLTG5.5M are set to bulls eye between the striper and choke guides.

Static Deflected all guides past the choke guide, TKBTG5 and five TKTTYG5's as the running guides. It took awhile to get use to how the guides and layout look. Now I like it.

My friends says it casts like a dream. He is using it up on Lake George this weekend and I should get a better report tomorrow. Much of the credit for this design belongs to Jim Ising at Angler's Resource.

Still have a lot to learn about this KR Concept System.

The 16 stripper will be plenty big for 8# braid but it will need to be out around 19 inches with a 2500 series reel. The best advise I've seen here is never EVER skip the TAPE AND TEST phase of any build unless you've built the exact same rod before and have good notes.
Neil has summed up pages 46-47 of our latest catalog perfectly.

Mike, the KR Concept performs best with thin and soft braided line so , you might consider the NGC method for your future rods dedicated to mono (nylon) or FC lines.
As Tom already told you, 16H is to small in diameter for your reel combined with mono filament fishing line so, either you change your line (with thin braid) or you change the entire reduction train .
A more casting efficient KR reduction train would be 20H -10H- 7L but, as i just sad , if casting length is your main concern , you should think about an NGC system . KR concept strong points are sensitivity and increased fighting abilities not casting length.
By the way, where is your choke point located (measured from the top of the reel?)

kingofbeasts custom rods

thanks for the info guys. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me this morning Jim. I have ordered a 20H 10H and 5.5H. Ill move the stripper up to 19 to start and adjust the reduction guides and choke based on that. Ill let you know it goes...

-Mike

The KR Concept is the longest casting layout Fuji has developed to date. That said there are plenty of opportunities for any layout to miss the mark and fall short of expectations (no pun intended). Usually this happens when builders get excited about a smaller, lighter stripper and attempt to send stiff, gnarly mono or fluoro through a stripper that is too small. Keep in mind that mono/fluoro/copolymer will ALWAYS require a bigger ring than braid and with 17lb test (mono) and beyond it is usually best to fall back on a traditional NGC layout. In fact, I usually draw the line at 12lb. Beyond that, I at least tape and test an NGC using the standard KL Guide frame.

When casting length is concerned there are two guides that are making a difference in an NGC or KR Concept system: the stripper and the chocker . Those are the guides where the line makes the most aggressive angles and where the most friction occur. Those guides size and place on a rod will affect that rod ability to cast grate distances or very poorly. This is just my opinion on the subject, but is backed up by the laws of physics. The heavier or the stiffer a line is the more it will struggle to pas trough those guides . Test casting is always a good idea .

kingofbeasts custom rods

This is what work for me with a stradic 2500 reel all measurements are taking from the end of the spool shaft kl16h 22 inches kl8h 29 inches kl5.5h 34.750 and kt4.5 or 5 runners first one is 40 inches that the choke point.You might want to try this my rods with this set up cast great and with a bunch of testing have not found a better set up with those guides

Tom, are you using braid or monofilament/copolymar line?

10lb braid only