I am getting things together to build a couple of surf spinning rods to target pompano. I'm going light a possible and I need these two rods to be casting machines. The rods are Rainshadow SUR1505F 12'6" 2-6oz. The spinning reels are Stradic 6000FG. Both are spooled with 14lb test mono with a 30lb mono shock leader joined with an Albright knot. I'll be slinging 5ozs of lead.

I was thinking (27x) using the Fugi BKWAG as reduction guides and BKTAG as my choker/running guides. Undecided on tip-top. I would greatly appreciate your input on the eye size or even another style guide. I'm no professional builder like you guys - any input would be valuable.

Kerry

The main criteria in getting the most casting distance is how well the blank and casting weight match each other. Any good guide system is going to perform well, provided the rod is nicely loaded by the intended casting weight.

The only thing you need to watch out for is the shock leader knot. The guide rings need to be large enough to easily pass that knot and about the only way you're going to know for sure is to tape up the guides and go cast it a few times. If can feel a "tug" as the knot flies out, the guides (choker and runners) may be too small.

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I would recommend using KB runners all the way to the top of this rod. Much bigger foot, better holding power...especially with that whopper of a knot. Forhan wrap with a couple of blocking wraps beyond that for the ultimate in small guide strength. Maybe an MN top with wrapping tang.

I just built a rod for fishing off the beach for pompano, macs and specs, but I went in a different direction. I used a Batson RX8 BAXST1085F which is a 9' salmon/steelhead rod that is rated up to 1 oz lure weight. I fish the Gulf coast so our pompano may be smaller, but I can't imagine throwing a 2 oz+ weight at them. The guide setup was basically 27X. I used Pac Bay titanium guides for weight and saltwater resistance, but I may live to regret that decision. They don't feel as strong as the AmTac Titans I usually use.

Bob Riggins Wrote:
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> I just built a rod for fishing off the beach for
> pompano, macs and specs, but I went in a different
> direction. I used a Batson RX8 BAXST1085F which
> is a 9' salmon/steelhead rod that is rated up to
> 1 oz lure weight. I fish the Gulf coast so our
> pompano may be smaller, but I can't imagine
> throwing a 2 oz+ weight at them. The guide setup
> was basically 27X. I used Pac Bay titanium guides
> for weight and saltwater resistance, but I may
> live to regret that decision. They don't feel as
> strong as the AmTac Titans I usually use.


What sized guides did you go with? I am looking to build something similar, but I am still hazy on the 27x. I get the concept and how to determine choke point, I'm just having trouble how to know which guides to choose for the reduction train. Other than ordering 2 or three in every size and keeping them on hand (which may be the best method down the road). It seems like you could go with bigger rings and shorter frame heights or high frames with small rings. Then how do you know how many reduction guides are necessary on a particular rod without just taping them up and casting it (for example, is the number of reduction guides the same on a 7 ft rod and 9 ft surf rod)?

I can wrap my head around the physics of the concept, but short of having a lifetime supply of guides available, I am unsure how to order ones that will work. Should I basically just order every size in beetween my butt guide and running guides? Or just pick a certain number of guides and incrementally step down the ring size (almost like Cone of Flight).

Sorry for the silly questions, I'm just trying to soak up some of the incredible knowledge that is floating around here.

Rod length won't change the choke guide location therefore yes, the number of reduction guides would be the same regardless of rod length. The guide set up is dependent on the reel (and line) not the rod length.

Yes, you can get the height you need with larger rings and lower frames, or smaller rings and higher frames. Generally, unless you're using very large or stiff line, smaller rings on higher frames will be better. But, either can and will achieve pretty much the same thing.

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I used the PacBay Titanium spining guides for the first 3 starting at 25 then 16 then 10. The choke guide is a 7 fly guide with the next 6 guides are 4 fly guides progressively spaced. This is the way I did it but I tend to experiment with different setups, so it may not be the best.

Thanks for the input thus far. For real now. Share some of that knowledge and give me some suggestions and numbers (guide size) please !!!!

Kerry

At some point you're asking for information that no one can give you. Beyond that point you're just going to have to tape up some guide sets and go try them.

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Kerry

It is good that you did your homework on reading the 27X method. I hope you read both the New Guide Primer & New Guide Concept. Have you gone to the Fuji Anglers Resource yet? This site is invaluable in getting to know the alphabet soup of guides and info on guides. It will give you a summary of all the guides, there is a height list chart of their guides, a tutorial on reel measurements so you can use their great GPS software, expecialy for your reduction guides and then the Static Load tutorial for your running guides. All of this is a click away by going to the top left and under Sponsors left-click on 'Anglers Rsrc - Fuji'. I guarantee you will make a short cut on your computer for that site. After spending many hours reading and rereading you will get a good idea of what you think you want. In the mean time while reading all you can on this great forum you will get a feel for which vendors listed under Sponsors might be best for you and what you want. Call them and tell them what you have, what you thin you know, and what you want. The vendors here that I have dealt with were very helpful in making sure I was on the right track and that the components I ordered fit together.

After you have done your homework, decided what you think you need and before you call the vendor post here what you have decided to try. Everyone on this site is very helpful and seem to follow the motto that there is no such thing as a stupid question, on stupid answers.

You are going to cast 5 OZs of lead -- No bait ?? The fish got to eat Add it all up Sounds like you may need a blank that will cast 6 - 7 ozs

That knot I don't like sixes 7's maybe 8's to clear it

Ask the supplier Tell him the knot you will be using
The NGC system is easy to set up Plus a test cast and a little tweeking

Bill - willierods.com

The bait is called fish bites. One fish bite strip may only be a couple of grams. There is no additional weight to speak of. Thanks all, I'll figure it out.

Kerry in my experience you will do yourself no favor by trying to determine guide sizes ahead of time. As Tom stated, the number of reduction guides is all about spool size. A 6000 reel is pretty big. You have to keep in mind the article references fresh water builds as well. In my opinion, you could easily end up with 5 or 6 reduction guides despite the article giving you the impression that you would never need that many.

I have done best by deciding on a butt guide and then the smallest running guide I would use. I buy high frame single foot guides for the reduction and single foot "fly rod" typre guides for the choker/running guides (choker and running guides are all same type/size).

If I was tossing 5 ounces I'd think a 30# shock leader very marginal and consider that experience might dictate I could move up as high as 50#. That said, I too am surprised you need 5 ounces for pompano.

So....to sum it up....I'd pick a reasonable price/performance guide....say fuji alconite for example. I'd decide on the smallest guide I think I should use in a fly rod stlye, like the blag. Then I would look at my spool diameter as that will dictate the size of a high frame guide like a byag series.

Lets say you decide on a blag10 (for choker/running guides) as being adequate in passing your shock leader knot and your spool diameter requires a byag 30. Now you only have to figure out the guides that match up between the byag30 and blag10 while also following the natural curve of your blank when loaded. That is the part nobody knows ahead of time. My advice? Bite the bullet and buy the 25, 20, 16, 12 and 10. You won't use them all, but If you didn't buy them now, and need one of them, the extra shipping would be more than the guide. Consider the worth of having that guide in stock for the next build.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.