Hi guys. I just built my first tuna rod. I used roller guides. I would like to ask a few questions. The rod is by no means perfect... I never managed to get the finish to be perfectly even and blemish free. I used a medium build epoxy. Should I have used high build? I know techniques has a lot to do with it. There are little bumps and valleys on some guides. What have I done wrong? Some of the guide finish looked a bit streaky like the bristles of the brush and never leveled. I also want to know how you get the edges straight on the guide blank. I tried using masking tape to get a straight edge but it still seems to be uneven on the blank. Any help or tips appreciated

The next time you put finish on your guides you can always use what I call the drop Method which one simply puts 1 or two drops of finish on top and 1 more on the bottom of the wrap letting the dryer turn and do all the work for you and if needed you can put 1 drops of finish on both sides of the guide wrap. I have been doing it this way for years and I always get a perfect finished look on my rods and good or better then what you might see on a Loomis rod. When you do this always flame your epoxy or mix first to lighten it up a bit. When applying your finish do not use the bristles on one the brush use the end of the handle on the brush and let one or two drops of epoxy drop on your guide wrap turn the rod and put one 1 or 2 if two is needed on the bottom of the wrap turn on the drier and let the dryer do the rest. Now the last and final set would be to take your torch or flame and run it under the Epoxied guides and let all the excessive Epoxy fall off and tidy thing up a bit to make it look neat and that will give you that perfect look every time.

Dura Gloss by UB 40 works best
Microwave the thicker bottle for 4 sec's




Nite_Life



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 07:33AM by Tom Kirkman.

Hello,

I'm just a hobby builder and had only done about a dozen rods before joining this forum. One thing that really helped me was the Rodmaker article "Improving your epoxy finish" which you can find posted in the Library link at the top of this page. When you mention your finish has "bumps and brush streaks", it sounds like you could be putting on a bit too much and going over its working time limit. Are applying finish to the under-wrap area with the rod turning? I have found that on heavy rods with long under-wraps it is easier and faster for to first apply finish to the under-wrap area (directly below the guide) with motor off and guide facing up. I'll do as many guides as I expect I'll have time for, then start the motor turning and apply finish to the rest of the wrap.

Another thought...Perhaps you could mix up a test batch of epoxy and, under your normal working conditions, apply it in 5 minute increments to a dowel or piece of scrap blank? Keep a clock or stopwatch close by and observe what the epoxy is doing when you apply it and how long it takes to start gelling up. Goal of this is to experiment and find the exact amount of working time you have in which to apply your finish. When applying finish on your first guide or two you may have noticed it went on easy like water. As you progressed up (or down) the rod you probably reached a point where the finish started to thicken, maybe even become "stringy" when loading it onto your brush, and you had to brush it out to get it even. This is your cue that the finish is very close to, or has already gone over its working time limit and must be replaced with a fresh batch. Any attempt to continue using the finish will result in the final product being unable to level.

Personally I have found the working time on the brand of epoxy I use to be 30 minutes. Some finishes will allow more time, some less. I keep a watch with a minute hand on my workbench and constantly monitor it as I apply finish. When I see I am getting close to my time limit, I finish the guide I am working on and turn off the motor for a minute or two to let excess epoxy collect on the bottom. After removing as much finish as I can from my brush, I hold it below the rod and gently run the side (not tip) of the bristles lengthwise across the wraps to wick off excess epoxy. Finally, I start the motor and monitor the rod for the next half hour before leaving it to dry on its own. Don't worry if you haven't done all the guides, mixing up a fresh batch of epoxy for them later is always easier than sanding out the lumps and bumps of excess finish which had gone over its working time--a lesson I learned the hard way.

Regarding getting a straight edge on your finish, it sounds like you are applying and drying your finish using the same motor with a fixed rpm? If so you will need something to brace your forearm against while applying finish. Depending on your set-up that could be as simple as the edge of your table/workbench or a heavy block of wood. I use a 6 rpm motor to both apply and dry my finish. To get straight lines I brace my brush-hand with the outer wrist area of my other hand (similar to a firearms stance with flashlight and handgun). The finish is "rolled" rather than brushed off the wraps and onto the blank. The one time I tried tape was pretty messy and not worth the hassle. Also, If have access to a lathe or high rpm motor, you could use it to apply finish with your brush and then transfer the rod to your slow rpm motor for drying. This will make for very crisp and straight lines.

Probably one of the longest post on here, but hope some it was helpful.
-chad



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 05:38AM by Chad Barlongo.

G'Day Sean Glenn & Chad have given you some good advice & no doubt you will receive heaps more & everyone will be correct .What you will have to do is keep trying the different methods until you find one that suits you & your getting the results your looking for.
as for my method I use a spatula to apply the epoxy .The spatula doesn't touch the blank with the dryer motor running I just lower the spatula until the epoxy starts to transfer to the blank until I feel I have enough epoxy to cover the wrap .When every thread is covered I then use a tooth pick to fill the tunnels around the guide feet . I always use masking tape to get a straight line & remove it as soon as I have flaming the epoxy . Just remember the only silly question is the one you don't ask .

If you put where you live it could help find someone in your area that could help in a more practical way.

Hope this has been of some help

Regards Baz

Bundeena
NSW Australia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 06:45AM by Barry Chapman.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

............

Rule number one, only epoxy should touch the wrap.....never the bristles of the brush. You aren't painting......just letting the epoxy flow off the end of the brush.

Rule number two, the quicker you apply the better. The higher the RPM the better. If you are turning the rod with a dryer motor while putting finish on you will never get a straight edge. Instead turn with your rod lathe (or by hand). Fashion a "hand rest" of some sorts. A tennis ball glued on a wood dowel......I use a big 4 cell mag lite flashlight....whatever is handy to rest/steady your hand with. As the rod is turning at high RPM, lower the brush (loaded with epoxy) a little past the end of the wrap and let the epoxy flow onto wrap and blank. You are only doing this for a fraction of a second (if the RPM's are high enough). With the help of the handrest and the short duration you won't have much chance for the edge to get crooked.

On bigger rods with underwraps and big guides.....I coat my underwraps first and let the epoxy set long enough so the thread doesn't dig in when wrapping the guides on. Then I coat the guide wrap, let it set rock hard, and sand a little if needed. Then I apply my final coat. I live in a warm climate and use threadmaster light. Rarely do I use a flame but many do. I find I do better if I start with the smallest guide first (while finsih is the thinnest) and work towards the butt of the rod. Much better to mix a new batch than to push the working limits of the finish. Mix finish well, 3 minutes or so, then pour it out on a sheet of aluminum foil. Next I blow on it with a drinking straw (to release all bubbles). I like to use a wide brush. If it is taking more than a couple/few minutes to coat all the guides that is a clue you are doing something wrong. That was one of the hardest things for me to get down at first. Now I load a brush, lower it down so the epoxy just touches, give the blank one turn, lift and flip the brush over, move over one brush width, and repeat. Done. If it is taking any longer get a wider brush, stop painting, and start turning that blank faster:)

After I put the finish on I rotate by hand, let the rod sit for a short time, and see if I have any sags. Personally I do better putting on a bit too much finish and wicking away any sags. Big guides with lots of thread tend to soak up a lot of finish. I'll generally do a couple of turns....guides up first, then down, then up again, before I wick. Then a couple/few more turns while I examine closely and off to the dryer.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Similar to the other posts.
1. Work very quickly during finish application. The quicker the better. Normally no more than 10-20 seconds per guide.
2. If the finish is curing too quickly for you, mix up much smaller batches.
3. High speed rotation on the rod during finish application allows the finish to be applied more quickly and will give you razor straight edges.
4. I generally use a speed of 0-200 rpm for finish application. Quickly turning for the bulk of the application, but then stopping to insure that the tunnels are filled properly.
5. I use my variable speed power wrapper for my finish application as well as my initial drying of the rod. After the rod has dried for about 10 minutes and is past the drip stage, I will transfer the rod to my drum dryer for long term drying.
6. Apply finish in a warm room in a warm spot. The finish will flow more easily and will level more evenly when it is warm. The downside of the warm finish is that it cures much more quickly. So you need to strike a balance.


Be safe

One I keep forgetting.

Put the finish on and leave it alone. Especially with the faster curing urethanes. :) Have to clean up and add another coat tonight. :(

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

I have not herd aything BAD about the New FlexCoat UV finish And have been using it for a while
It levels nice and STAYS WET longer then some A good thing
I also like the light finishes two coats

If you place is Hot the finish will set faster And you WILL have to work FASTER I keep I/m not saying 30 % but around 60/70 is good
Once the finish is on and looks good -- Raise up the heat to cure it -- Or just leave it alone !!!

Bill - willierods.com

Wow thanks so much. Can't believe how helpful this all is. All makes sense. I think I was allowing too much time. I did all my guides in one batch! Thank you all for the tips I have learnt so much guys! I will try all these tips and let you guys know.