For a 10 foot 2 piece rod, I have a couple of longitudanal cracks in the tip half starting about 7" from end of the joint. The longest crack is 2". A guide will be placed there after repair. Question is how will you repair it. If I bind it and epoxy each layer for about 2/3 layers, will that be strong enough not forgetting I'll be also binding a guide on the top of it? do I need to resort to a few layers of carbon fibre cloth? Ferrule is spigot type and at this point I don't want to cut and glue new ferrule. Will do it only if no other way to fix.

ken



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2014 09:16AM by ken khoo.

Overwrapping with thread alone is not going to fix it. It needs to be sleeved. This could be tricky on a ferrule. If I could see a photo and understand the exact parameters involved I might be better able to advise you.

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Tom, thanks for quick reply. The start of the split is 7" from end of the ferrule and is 2" long. I guess I was hoping not to need to sleeve it. Was going to first push epoxy into split as well as over it. Then bind and epoxy binding and maybe do this twice. Carbonmod has youtube showing how to use their kit and it maybe that I'll need to do it that way. btw, rod is an 8kg

You realistically cannot expect to repair something like that. A manufacturer (Ross Rods in upstate NY) tried to sleeve it to no avail. To do a proper job the sleavs would have to be baked - and that would ruin the blank anyway.

My advise - trash it. Use it for parts. certainly don't give it to a customer. An internal splint will make it stronger - but the action will be ruined.
Herb

Ken,
I would take the tip off as well as any guides above the break.

Then, I would find a piece of rod blank that you could bring down from the tip end and have a tight fit when it gets to the break. I would prefer to use thin wall blank if you can find it. If you can't find thinwall blank material, I would just take the blank piece that i find that fits, and chuck it into a drill and spin it against a belt sander to thin the blank sides.

Then, use 5 minute epoxy to glue in place and do a 1/4 inch wrap at each end of the repair piece. Then, tie the guides back on and put the tip back on.

Since you are a good distance from the tip on this break, you should not affect the action of the rod too much.

By the way, I would extend the repair sleeve for at least an inch above and an inch below the ends of the break.

The rod will fish just fine.

p.s. Epoxy and thread will NOT be a good long lasting repair.

Be safe

Thanks, guys. Looks like I'll be sleeving it but from the inside. I do have a piece that I can prepare and glue it inside then bind outside. I've done this before and it works. Most of the action is above it anyway. I was hoping that I epoxy the split. Another way is to laminate new carbon fibre cloth with resin over it. More expensive as I don't have any stuff. Carbonmod sells a kit for about 30 pounds(UK) for those who want to go this road. Check out their youtube.

I may have misunderstood something - if you sleeve it from the inside, will it still fit over the male portion of the ferrule?

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Tom, answer to your question is yes because the break is well away from the ferrule and the repair piece will be cut to clear the ferrule and allow for future wear. I have measured and tested the repair piece for fit under the break. The tricky bit is gluing the repair piece in place without contaminating the ferrule with glue. Plastic drinking straw comes to mind to protect the ferrule but so far haven't found one the right size. What I have found is Loctite 5 minute or 60 seconds self mixing epoxy. It comes with a mixing tube that is about 3" long which is about the ferrule length. The epoxy mixing tube can fit into a larger drinking straw so I'll be squeezing the epoxy down the straw and then carefully withdraw the whole lot without the ferrule part being touched by epoxy. Then just insert the repair piece which should coat itself and push excess epoxy away from ferrule. This is much the same as fitting metal ferrules or reel seat. After drying then I can push epoxy into the cracks and this should also fill any gaps to the repair piece underneath. Then I can wrap one or two coats of binding and epoxy each layer. I think with the a piece of rod under the break I will only need one layer of binding. This will also act as underbinding as a guide needs to be bound there. What do you think?

Roger has outlined another method but the method I have used before, successfully, is to cut at the break. Remove all the guides and insert tip of rod into the ferrule and pull rod thru until it stops. Mark and cut the rod that is inside ferrule to clear ferrule and glue it in place. Disadvantage is that some length is lost. How much depends on taper. Advantage is that joint is very strong, using the same rod and taper is right. As this rod is an older model and I don't have a second using some other rod blank will not give a good fit. However, epoxy will usually fill in the gaps.

IMHO
I would use a regular epoxy only because it will give plenty of time to clean out the ferrule
After pushing in the repair piece and sure it is all the way - take a lot of Q - Tips and with alcohol clean out the female -- Well

Also wrap the repair with thread Tight When dry take the thread off Clean You can over-sleeve-better
If you wrap with thread and a good coat of say Permagloss or two

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2014 08:58AM by bill boettcher.

Bill, I definitely need Q tips ready to clean the ferrule and longer ones at that. I hear what you're saying about regular epoxy with more time to clean up but the problem is that Loctite self mix only come in 1 or 5 minute. Having the syringe to distribute the epoxy is useful, indeed needed, in my situation to keep the ferrule clean. One further thing that I'll be doing is to chamfer and slit the repair piece/inner sleeve at both ends. Ralph O'Quinn advises chamfering so that the inner piece doesn't cut into the wall of the rod. Slitting will allow the rod to flex better with the inner sleeve putting less pressure on the inside wall by being able to flex with the rod, and hopefully spreading the pressure over a greater surface area. At least that's what I'm trying to do. It does mean that I'll have to position it properly so that the slit will work. Positioning should not be difficult as having a slit means I can use a screw driver to do this.

Loctite 1 minute epoxy, wow, you need to be exact in what you're doing. Just thinking when I'll have use for such a product and I guess when I'm fishing and can't wait. Should start another topic for this. Wonder what the bond strength is compared to 5 minute and regular epoxy.

Did you ever try to contact the maker of the blank to see if there is a warranty on it and maybe they would replace the tip
Then again - Why or How did it split

This is a little Drastic - But - you could find the ENDS of the splits - mark - add 1 inch to each end - mark - then find the middle - cut the blank Then insert the inner piece and over sleeve without getting glue in the ferrule

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2014 10:11PM by bill boettcher.

Bill I will cut the rod if my fix doesn't work. One thing I will do is to ease the pressure of the inner sleeve on the inside of the rod when it flexes. I thought of slitting at both ends but the slits themselves may fracture further. Another way is to cut the inner sleeve at an angle of more than 45 degrees and place the longer bit on top. This ought to work just as well. Not sure which will be better. Any engineers out there care to comment?

have you read the repair articles in the library maybe they will give you some ideas on how to go

Bill - willierods.com

Yes, have read the repair article but doesn't explain intricacies of flexing although prob not all that necessary. It's just that I enjoy such info. One thing I'm a little apprehensive is using 5 minute epoxy. It doesn't flex well. I may have to research to see which epoxy is best for flex.

Ok, just thought I'll finish this thread with my experience in actual doing the repair. It didn't go as smoothly as anticipated. Firstly, don't use 5 minute epoxy there's just not enough time. Using a straw to keep female ferrule clean didn't work as epoxy started to stick in it rather than act as lubricant. Had to discard that and just push inner sleeve into place. After that use solvent to clean up female ferrule. Luckily, in spite of using the 5 minute stuff it cleaned up well. Otherwise, my back up plan was to use a metal ferrule. This will have worked but meant losing about 8" - 10" of tip half and add weight. I then used regular epoxy on outside of fracture and pushed in between the cracks. I immediately started to bind beginning well before and finishing well after fracture. Excess epoxy squeezed out during this process. After setting I bound the guide back and painted. I must say I'm quite pleased with the result. My only regret is not thinking to use a grey binding as that is the color of the blank. It would have made the mend invisible. Now only thing remains is to test it on fish.

Ok, just thought I'll finish this thread with my experience in actual doing the repair. It didn't go as smoothly as anticipated. Firstly, don't use 5 minute epoxy there's just not enough time. Using a straw to keep female ferrule clean didn't work as epoxy started to stick in it rather than act as lubricant. Had to discard that and just push inner sleeve into place. After that use solvent to clean up female ferrule. Luckily, in spite of using the 5 minute stuff it cleaned up well. Otherwise, my back up plan was to use a metal ferrule. This will have worked but meant losing about 8" - 10" of tip half and add weight. I then used regular epoxy on outside of fracture and pushed in between the cracks. I immediately started to bind beginning well before and finishing well after fracture. Excess epoxy squeezed out during this process. After setting I bound the guide back and painted. I must say I'm quite pleased with the result. My only regret is not thinking to use a grey binding as that is the color of the blank. It would have made the mend invisible. Now only thing remains is to test it on fish.