I am about to take the journey into my first rod build and I have 2 rods planned out. I have decided on everything but the guides, and I am hoping I can get some clarification or guidance. I want to use the New Concept Spacing System that Tom Kirkman talks about in his book, but I want to order the guides with the rest of my parts so I don't have to pay shipping twice. Is there a way to do this?

The rods I plan on making are a 5' ultralight with 500 size shimano reel and 6' light with 1000 size reel, both mhx blanks. Can I use plain aluminum oxide rings or is it better to use the concept guides with this approach and is there a way to figure out about how many I need and what size before ordering? I don't mind ordering a few extra guides, I'm sure I'll use them eventually.

Thank you for any help. I am excited to get started but I want to do it right!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2014 09:21PM by Jeremy Merkel.

This is what I would do:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

But it'll be hard to accurately gauge the exact guide sizes you need before you actually get things going. If you have a good idea of what size choker and running guides you'll be using, and some idea what size butt guide you'll need (roughly 1/2 the diameter of the reel spool OD) you can simply order a couple or three extra intermediate sizes to allow you to plug and play once you get everything in hand. Unless you're planning on using very high end guides, we'd only be talking about a few extra bucks. Well worth it to get things just right when you start setting things up.

..................

From one newbee to another I would recommend you get the microwave guides for the 6' rod first. Follow the American Tackle guidelines for the three guides closest to the reel and then learn to static test the rest of the guides. I felt it was a great confidence builder in teaching me about guide sizes, how to work with them, the frustration of lining them up straight, grinding and wrapping them. Buying guides for my other rod was also very difficult for me because of all the choices and learning the alphabet soup of choices. On the left of the screen left click on Anglers Rsrc - Fuji. This was a big help in starting to learn and comprehend about the guides. The GPS took a while for me to really understand/appreciate. Also do a search here on your rods. If lucky someone else has already done the homework for you in either their question or answers from others. Most of all good luck and take your time and read every article in the library on the top.

Mike commented about checking out Angers Resc [anglersresource.net] and then clink on the link Theory of the New Guide Concept [anglersresource.net] .This will walk you step by step through the process. If you have any questions about it post them here for help.

I built a ultra light 7 footer using the same 500 size Shimano reel. If you have questions about your layout after you try to figure it you can shoot me a email. The stripper guides will be the same between yours and mine it is just the number of running guides and the spacing that you decide on that will be different.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

Thank you for the help. I have read that article in the library 3+ times and it finally clicked once I pulled out a calipers and tape measure and measured it all out.

I got 36mm for my spool diameter on the 500 reel, so the choke guide would be 38.25" from the reel? Butt guide came to 18mm, so right now it looks something like 20, 12, 10, 7, 7, 7 on the 5' rod, and the 1st #7 guide is the choke guide, right? I'll get a few other sizes just in case.

I think I am going to use Fuji BYOG guides as they are cheap and high profile, thanks for the microwave suggestion though. Is it possible to use #6 BLVOG for the running guides with BYOG stripper guides or does that complicate things? I ask because I don't see #6 BYOG guides offered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2014 12:57PM by Jeremy Merkel.

You're on the right track. Just to be safe, you might order a 16 and an 8 just to give you a bit more leeway when spacing.

If you don't have large knots or connections to pass, you may very well be able to use #6 choke and running guides, although if they're offered you won't be giving up much by using the 7's.

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One way to minimize buying guides that may not be used is to use paper tape for calculators to lay the design of the rod on. When you do this it is an easy record to keep also.

Tape the paper strip onto a long enough surface to go at least from the butt of the rod to the first running guide, the guide that will be 37X guide. Mark the end of the reel shaft where it will be in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Keep in mind that the reel is going to be on a reel seat, so it will have additional height above the blank. You may have to tape a second strip to the first at this end of the rod to get enough height on the paper. Note that the reel is not going to be mounted on the blank. It will be mounted on a reel seat. Draw a straight line from there to the top of the first running guide. Your reduction guide tops should be on that line somewhere. Put your first guide on the blank so that its top will touch the line and so it will be about 19-21 inches (or so, this is not a "hard" requirement) from the shaft tip. You need to know the heights of guides to find the one that will fit here. If you have to choose, take a smaller diameter ring that fits rather than going larger in ring size to fit. Height is more important than diameter, especially on light builds where you will not likely be using heavy lines. I mean that you may find a taller guide with a smaller ring, and that is fine. Then find another guide for the 2nd reduction guide that has its top touch the line. Then a third. BUT, if you need only two reduction guides to get from the reel shaft end to the first running guide with logical spacing, that will work. Not many builders will go that way, but especially with small reels, it works just fine. From the first running guide to the tip they will be all the same size and located based on "stress testing."

I suggest you look at this from Jim Ising at Fuji: [rodbuilding.org]

I repeat, Keep in mind that especially with small reels, you may only have two reduction guides. Don't assume that you need more.

Jeremy Merkel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the help. I have read that article
> in the library 3+ times and it finally clicked
> once I pulled out a calipers and tape measure and
> measured it all out.
>
> I got 36mm for my spool diameter on the 500 reel,
> so the choke guide would be 38.25" from the reel?
> Butt guide came to 18mm, so right now it looks
> something like 20, 12, 10, 7, 7, 7 on the 5' rod,
> and the 1st #7 guide is the choke guide, right?
> I'll get a few other sizes just in case.
>
> I think I am going to use Fuji BYOG guides as they
> are cheap and high profile, thanks for the
> microwave suggestion though. Is it possible to
> use #6 BLVOG for the running guides with BYOG
> stripper guides or does that complicate things? I
> ask because I don't see #6 BYOG guides offered.

Jeremy-
I believe I used the same reel that your planning on using - Shimano Sedona 500, is that correct? If so when I measured my reel and input the data into the GPS software I ended up using BKLAG 12H (19.2" from reel shaft), BKLAG 05.5H (25.25" from reel shaft), BKBAG 04.5 (31" from reel shaft - choke point) and BKTAG 04.5 to the tip. This is the set-up that I used on my 7' UL and it is a dream to cast. If you are using the same reel the same set-up should work, you would just need to adjust the number of running guides for your length of rod. Keep in mine that I use 4# Nanofil line.

In Hardloy, the single footers are designated BOG.

> I believe I used the same reel that your planning
> on using - Shimano Sedona 500, is that correct?
> If so when I measured my reel and input the data
> into the GPS software I ended up using BKLAG 12H
> (19.2" from reel shaft), BKLAG 05.5H (25.25" from
> reel shaft), BKBAG 04.5 (31" from reel shaft -
> choke point) and BKTAG 04.5 to the tip. This is
> the set-up that I used on my 7' UL and it is a
> dream to cast. If you are using the same reel the
> same set-up should work, you would just need to
> adjust the number of running guides for your
> length of rod. Keep in mine that I use 4# Nanofil
> line.

Yes, that is correct! I am also using 4# mono. Are you using the KR Concept system for these guides, and is the 12H guide the butt guide in your setup? It's very tempting to use your setup, but I don't have that KR concept down if that's what is being used, and I am doing this for understanding/mastery primarily. It does sounds extremely sleek, though.

if I were building that rod today, I would likely use the pac bay minima guides.
Size 25, 16, 8, and size 4 to the tip, and a size 4 tip top.

This setup works very well, the guides are light and inexpensive and the guide setup works very well.

With an ultra light rod and 4# ine, the size 4 guides are plenty large. If you want, you could go down to size 3 for runners if you like.


Be safe