I can understand where the Microwave Guides can make such a difference in a spinning rod but how so in a baitcaster?

Same basic idea, and they are pretty...grin.

Only spinning guides I recommend to people. I just bought a set of casting to try out.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think they look cheesy, don't own any and don't want to. I have shown them to lots of people in our area and they all have arrived at the same conclusion on their own. There is no data to support claims of longer distance or anything else for that matter when tested against most other properly set up guide trains. If they ever come to Kansas I will more than happily put my guide train setups against those on the same rod and reel and lure weight set ups it's all hype and that's what sells to the unknowing, but what the hay if you like em use em it's your rod.

Terry Kirk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally
> I think they look cheesy, don't own any and don't
> want to. I have shown them to lots of people in
> our area and they all have arrived at the same
> conclusion on their own. There is no data to
> support claims of longer distance or anything else
> for that matter when tested against most other
> properly set up guide trains. If they ever come
> to Kansas I will more than happily put my guide
> train setups against those on the same rod and
> reel and lure weight set ups it's all hype and
> that's what sells to the unknowing, but what the
> hay if you like em use em it's your rod.

What would you suggest, sir.

Calvin on a spinning rod I would start with a 16 10 8 6's out to tip or possibly even 16 10 6's out to tip depending on which blank it was on. On a casting rod I would spiral it starting 12 doublefoot 10 double foot 8 doublefoot 6 fly guides out to tip, keep in mind this is very generic and would depend a lot on what the rod is used for. I would use Fujis or Minimas.

Calvin (and the rest)...... I and most others disagree that the Microwave guides look cheesy. They are very well built and super tough.

It is true that the benefit of the spinning guides greatly outweigh the benefits of the casting guides. That being said, the casting guides do work as advertised and help to tame any "line slap" faster than a "conventional" guide train.

99% of the casting and spinning rods I have built in the last year have had the Microwave guide system. There are a number of factors as to why.... (1) After (almost) everyone takes the Microwave Challenge ( [www.youtube.com] ) it is easy to see why you should have them. (2) the customer has heard about them from a friend or through research on the internet. (3) This one I hear alot.... "can you put these cool looking guides on?" ....and a picture of the Microwave guide attached to the email (I love that one).

I love using the casting guide set because...(1) they work (2) they are single foot which give you a huge weight saving on the guide its self, thread and finish, which give you a better performing rod (3) they are affordable compared to a comparative set of guides that are the same high quality.

I hope this helps your original questions..... give them a try, you WILL love them.

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 04:33PM by Don Morse.

Hi Calvin,

If you haven’t made up your mind already, I would say give the MicroWave line Control System a try. We’ve sold over 15,000 sets to custom rod builders alone which tells me that performance outweighs some opinions of “cheesy looks”.

We encounter a lot of skeptics, in fact I would say that most builders are skeptics right off the bat and some won’t even try them for whatever reason, as Terry’s second sentence says it all. Don’t let other’s refusal to consider innovation deter you from at least trying them. All too often a poor review from a builder who hasn’t done their research will dissuade open minded anglers from experiencing something new.

We have now presented these guides to the 3 fishing industry trade shows filled with experts and experienced angler/designers. The results were best of show awards at each one making history in that no product or company has ever won all three shows. Side by side demonstration comparisons were key in showcasing the MWG benefits which were again later confirmed after the shows by many skeptical rod designers doing their own independent testing. Identical blanks/reels/line etc. were built with cone of flight guides and MWG’s for the demonstrations. We’ve also had many builder/designers put their own guide train designs against them as well. Many are very good and close the distance gap in some casting situations but none have proven better when tested side by side in our comparisons(with several of them participating). It’s amazing the length some people will go to try and disprove MWG claims. I guess the best claims though are coming from satisfied anglers on the water, especially the competitive anglers on the water who we are arranging their sponsored brand rods to be retro-fitted with MWG’s if the brands are not going to use them. What I can’t understand is that if MWG’s work well and the fishermen like them, why would any builder not use or recommend them?

Casting Guides - The "MWG Casting Edition" has a ring that corrects/directs traveling line that flows in a oscillating wave like pattern as it leaves the reel guide in a side to side and up and down motion occurring with all casting reels. In "larger standard guide layout" designs those line waves continue to bounce around through the guides as it travels the length of the rod. In "micro guide" versions where it has more line control it still must go through a small ID stripping guide causing the oscillating line's speed to slow reducing distance/accuracy and increasing the number of backlashes. The "MWG Casting Edition" will control line efficiently serving to direct line and maintain speed to address distance and accuracy issues while reducing the frequency of backlashing. They also incorporate other design features that aid in line management to improve rod performance.

If you have any questions about the system or would like more information please feel free to contact me any time.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company
(800)516-1750 Ext. 1202

It is interesting to me that the Microwave system and the Fuji Quick Reduction systems on spinning rods work on the same principal: Get the line under control as soon as possible utilizing higher than normal, smaller than normal, guides. Pac Bay may be out there wondering why they didn't market their high/small guides more effectively as that approach is again basically the same thing.

On casting rods, the Microwave system paragraph in the last post by Darren could well have been written by Fugi for their KLH casting system. Again, they are approaching the issue in the same direction.

I have built both systems on both types of rods, but not in any real quantity. Can I tell the difference? Hard to say. I would not go into court and take the oath that I could.

Do I have a preference? While more challenging to set up, I favor the Fuji approach because of the flexibility in guide styles/finishes that are available.

I expect the differences between the systems in length of casts would be better evaluated by rigorous research that would entail a whole lot more casts than most of us are willing to make.

The Concept System came out first And it worked It helped to controll the pigtails of ( spinning line )

The MicroWave System then came out and worked even better to controll those ( pig tails ) a lot better
Yet
Still using the static testing to place guides and sizing

Now with companies looking at this ( missing the boat ) they come out with a casting guide that does not controll any pig tails ( there are none ) on a casting reel

Another system comes out that seems to just move the chocker guide closer to the reel - now the line has a more sharp of an angle to travel i
The Shortest distance between to points is a ( streight line )

You be the Judge

Bill - willierods.com

Willie.....
It is true there are no "pigtails" coming off of a casting reel but the line does not come off straight. There is still a lot of line action, back and forth mostly but also some up and down motion. This of course is not easily detected by the naked eye but it is still happening. I have heard rumors (from a very reliable source) that there will soon be some high speed video of the Microwave casting guides in action. the stripper guide does help to get all line action under control faster than any other set up.

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don

Yea

But Still A microwave ??? I mean Jeeee it's a fishing rod

Up - down - side to side I say adjust the size of the butt guide and spacing and be done with it

Sorry i don't buy it

Don
I will wait for the move LOL

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 08:45PM by bill boettcher.

Darrin, I do use other American Tackle guides and accomplish what you yourself say when comparing the guide systems. They, the microwaves are no worse than other guide trains out there it also means they are no better, there is no significant casting gain there fore that tells me that getting the line under control more quickly means nothing. Would you state that the MicroWaves are so much much more effective that there is no reason to purchase any other guides your company sells? Looks are subjective and to the eye of the beholder, thus my comment cheesy, that is my own opinion.

Terry..... Darrin in no way in his post said that Microwaves make all of the other guides obsolete. There are guides for many different uses. The Microwave guides do cover a large percentage of rod and fishing styles. They do not cover heavier line weights or conditions where freezing guides are a concern.

By saying "there is no significant casting gain there fore that tells me that getting the line under control more quickly means nothing." , you are missing a very important benefit of getting the line under control..... the accuracy difference. Controlled line performance does help accuracy of casts.

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don

Don, I didn't state that he said that, I asked if he would go on record to state that, I knew when i asked he could not do that. Accuracy is a learned physical trait, almost anyone can learn to cast accurately with a lot of practice, in my opinion and remember this is my opinion No amount of different guide trains out there can make that claim as to improved accuracy. To prove that point to yourself, find someone who has never cast a rod of any kind and have them cast a rod with microwaves and then a conventional guide train. Then take both rods and put them in the hands of an excellent caster. Lastly take the rod with microwaves and put it in the hands of a beginner or newby to rods and then put the other rod in the hands of a person who has casted all their life. By your statement of benefit one should see a difference in accuracy with a better or improvement in these casting situations, the microwaves would always win out?? I do not buy into that. I have no grudge against anyone who wants to use them and if it gives them a sense of being better for them then go for it, I have no quarrell with Darrin nor American Tackle I will continue to use some of their products just not the ones that I remember i said I, think are hpe all fluff but no go for me. Hope that doesn't get taken as antagonistic because it is not meant that way.

Terry..... What system do you use? NGC, KR, COF....and why? I am curious...

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don

Hi all,

Line control has always been a goal of guide layouts even if it wasn’t explained in that manner. Cone of flight and newer concept systems etc. all serve to guide the line the length of the rod during a cast with some degree of management. Nearly 2 decades ago rod builders and a specific component company shifted focus to controlling the line early in order to maximize performance. All rods that cast (even some that don’t) can utilize improved line management to provide real benefits, although those benefits for spinning, casting and even fly rod configurations may differ according to needs and function.

There is a lot to consider when looking at guides such as size, location, quantity, function and design. The MWG Casting Edition system covers a lot of design features that differ from many if not all other guides trying to achieve similar results as well as incorporating some new goals associated with line control. They are in a class by themselves and not necessarily just performing the same function as the spinning versions…



Terry no worries, I don’t take your comments as antagonistic. It’s perfect for debate and not unlike what I have already encountered many times before. One doesn’t create and promote a product line that is so different than anything else available without expecting doubt. We offer product to cover all the bases and I thank you for using our other AT guides, we will always appreciate your consideration.

I think the argument I would make is; if using a rapid choke or some similarly quick line control set of guides demonstrating control in 3 or 4 guides considered effective, why wouldn’t a set exhibiting control in the first guide not be considered, more effective? (Providing of course if that was all the MWG’s did) By that alone MWG’s should be deemed better. Then adding their other attributes should certainly seal the deal.

Now for function; measuring for differences expected can constitute many different aspects depending on the desired results. In fact using different guides/layouts for different purposes, even different lines result in certain performance pluses and minuses. Even style of casting or the power/effort expended will vary results per each individual rod. The MWG series in general was designed to be the one size fits most(if not all) with easy application and maximum efficiency. This means that both blank/rod and angler will have the benefit of a more efficient system allowing more effective performance results. “Significant improvement” was mentioned, if one foot makes a difference in catching a fish or losing a lure then to me that can be considered significant in both distance & accuracy…



I believe it is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and MWG’s are quickly becoming the fashionable look favored by many. And for anyone selling a rod, a new look, solid performance and a story to tell is priceless. I still don’t know why any rod builder supplying anglers with custom rods wouldn’t embrace this product and provide the latest in rod building innovation.

Thank you for your time.

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Don I use a Quick reduction system. Darrin thanks for your thoughts and time.