The point is KVD has won millions in prize money, and Angler of the Year at least seven times against the best in the world, with good basic equipment. Why? Because he is better at it than other people! Not because of secret weapons.

Why custom rods?
Why custom anything???
Because I can.
Because you want something unique.
Because custom builders are the ones pushing the envelope.
Because you want to try some new products, like microwave guides, that aren't commercially available.

If you assemble all the "bests" into one rod what have you got?
A very nice, extremely expensive fishing rod...nothing more.
It won't catch one more fish than another rod using all the second best or third or tenth best.
Only novices are seeking the Holy Grail of the best lure, the best reel,the best rod...
Folks that know what they're doing already know what they need and can do it with what they have.

Garry Thornton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is KVD has won millions in prize money,
> and Angler of the Year at least seven times
> against the best in the world, with good basic
> equipment. Why? Because he is better at it than
> other people! Not because of secret weapons.
>
> Why custom rods?
> Why custom anything???
> Because I can.
> Because you want something unique.
> Because custom builders are the ones pushing the
> envelope.
> Because you want to try some new products, like
> microwave guides, that aren't commercially
> available.
>
> If you assemble all the "bests" into one rod what
> have you got?
> A very nice, extremely expensive fishing
> rod...nothing more.
> It won't catch one more fish than another rod
> using all the second best or third or tenth best.
>
> Only novices are seeking the Holy Grail of the
> best lure, the best reel,the best rod...
> Folks that know what they're doing already know
> what they need and can do it with what they have.


I get that and there was never a point that I didn't get that. Up to a point, KVD (in your example) would be much more "deadly" with a beer can and mono than I would be with a Steez combo because he's a much better fisherman than I am. My point to you was that the metric is subjective and individual. The best rod in the world won't put more fish in the boat. Nor will the ultimate surfrod, or flyrod, or boat rod, or.......

why would he need your frog rod if what you say about Quantim Rods and wright and mcgill rods is true?

If by metric you mean "idea" or "notion" and not the Canadian rock band or a measuring system used by most of the world, then I think you are saying "Everyone has there own ideal."
Back on page one you asked what would we as builders put together for bass, if money were no object.
My answer was something from the middle of the road, because I don't need a mallet to swat gnats.
With any purchase that exceeds pure utility, pride of ownership figures into the equation.
However, as I said, you can't buy a game!
The most expensive brands might have super cloth, magic glue and blood diamond guide inserts, but at the end of the day these things only catch fishermen.

Garry Thornton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If by metric you mean "idea" or "notion" and not
> the Canadian rock band or a measuring system used
> by most of the world, then I think you are saying
> "Everyone has there own ideal."
> Back on page one you asked what would we as
> builders put together for bass, if money were no
> object.
> My answer was something from the middle of the
> road, because I don't need a mallet to swat
> gnats.
> With any purchase that exceeds pure utility, pride
> of ownership figures into the equation.
> However, as I said, you can't buy a game!
> The most expensive brands might have super cloth,
> magic glue and blood diamond guide inserts, but at
> the end of the day these things only catch
> fishermen.



Your point has been noted (over and over and over) and it is also a subjective one. Do you build custom rods? If so, why?

Terry Kirk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why would he need your frog rod if what you say
> about Quantim Rods and wright and mcgill rods is
> true?


Agreed. Some string and pool cue should suffice.

Subjective as in based on personal likes or opinions...What else are we talking about?
Yes I build rod rods and I already told you why, but here goes again and again, subjectively
> Because I can.
> Because I want something unique.
> Because custom builders are the ones pushing the envelope.
> Because I want to try some new products, like microwave guides, that aren't commercially available.

Terry...
The Frog Rod bit was a joke!!!
Calvin...
Pool cues are too stiff for Bass...Willow branches are too soft, but your on the right track...We might make a builder out of you yet...HAHAHA.

Garry Thornton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Subjective as in based on personal likes or
> opinions...What else are we talking about?
> Yes I build rod rods and I already told you why,
> but here goes again and again, subjectively
> > Because I can.
> > Because I want something unique.
> > Because custom builders are the ones pushing the
> envelope.
> > Because I want to try some new products, like
> microwave guides, that aren't commercially
> available.
>
> Terry...
> The Frog Rod bit was a joke!!!
> Calvin...
> Pool cues are too stiff for Bass...Willow branches
> are too soft, but your on the right track...We
> might make a builder out of you yet...HAHAHA.


Great.....has anyone made one out of you yet??.....lol

I tend to agree with Gary on this subject.

There is a very big difference in blanks. There is a big difference in using a blank that weighs 3 ozs, and one of the same length and power that weighs 1 oz.

But as far as guides are concerned, Pac Bay minima - are plenty strong, plenty smooth, wear well, and are very inexpensive. By using a split grip, you will have a lighter and less expensive rod.
Basically a butt cap to balance out the rod and a long enough back grip to nicely hold the reel. No need for a fore grip, but I prefer to use a full reel seat, and not one that is split.

If you use the same blank, but then equip it with $30 worth of guides, grips and reel seat, I dare say you will find that it fishes very little different than the same blank with $200 worth of guides, grip and reel seat.

Also, you will find that the finished weight of the two rods is not that much different.

Be safe

> Great.....has anyone made one out of you
> yet??.....lol
Really? Is that the best you've got?

Garry Thornton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Great.....has anyone made one out of you
> > yet??.....lol
> Really? Is that the best you've got?


What would you like?

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tend to agree with Gary on this subject.
>
> There is a very big difference in blanks. There is
> a big difference in using a blank that weighs 3
> ozs, and one of the same length and power that
> weighs 1 oz.
>
> But as far as guides are concerned, Pac Bay minima
> - are plenty strong, plenty smooth, wear well, and
> are very inexpensive. By using a split grip, you
> will have a lighter and less expensive rod.
> Basically a butt cap to balance out the rod and a
> long enough back grip to nicely hold the reel. No
> need for a fore grip, but I prefer to use a full
> reel seat, and not one that is split.
>
> If you use the same blank, but then equip it with
> $30 worth of guides, grips and reel seat, I dare
> say you will find that it fishes very little
> different than the same blank with $200 worth of
> guides, grip and reel seat.
>
> Also, you will find that the finished weight of
> the two rods is not that much different.
>
> Be safe


Finally. Thank you. SOme actual information. I know due to Garry doing (I have know idea what he's doing he contradicts himself and moves the goal posts so much) the constant changing and evading answering a question BUT it was really HE who originally suggested that it really didn't make any difference what the rod was made out of.up to a point but never did define what that point was nor how he would go about what I originally asked. Anyway, thank you for your reply.

mark crouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Calvin
> I think I can built you the Ultimate Bass Rod. I
> am very well known around the Globe. and if some
> one wants the Ultimate Rod they Contact me, if you
> are interested in having a rod built, E-mail me or
> call 304 322 0055.
> Mark Crouse - The Munich Rod Man


Calvin -
Mark can do what you want. Talk to him. Tell him what the STYLE of fishing you are considering. The tool has to fit the application to whit: a "dock skipper" will be vastly different than a bass rod made to toss an Alabama rig. For ANY builder who is also a fisherman describing the conditions, the line test; the lure weights etc will be much more helpful than "medium light"

I have been building custom bass rods for myself for 20 years or so. I build them because I can not buy a commercial rod that can even come close to the quality and specific specifications that I can build for myself. I build mostly on St. Croix SC-V Blanks. The first thing i do to the blank is void it's warrenty be removing all the paint/finish from it. This reduces the blanks weight thereby making it more sensitive and makes it a lot easier to repair or alter guide placement in the future. I have some rods that are 30 years old that I have upgraded the guide systems on three times or so. My favorite jerkbait rod is a Loomis IM6 6' Medium Action rod I bought back in 1979. I stripped the orginal guides and finish and rebuilt with #3 micro's. I bought two of these rods back then and still have one that is a orginal. I love to hand these two rods to guys and ask them what they think of them. They can not believe that they were identical factory rods.

Calvin, the best answer to your question was answered already by Steve Gardner in the above post. I agree 100% with Steve's comments.

Ken Preston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mark crouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hi Calvin
> > I think I can built you the Ultimate Bass Rod.
> I
> > am very well known around the Globe. and if
> some
> > one wants the Ultimate Rod they Contact me, if
> you
> > are interested in having a rod built, E-mail me
> or
> > call 304 322 0055.
> > Mark Crouse - The Munich Rod Man
>
>
> Calvin -
> Mark can do what you want. Talk to him. Tell
> him what the STYLE of fishing you are considering.
> The tool has to fit the application to whit: a
> "dock skipper" will be vastly different than a
> bass rod made to toss an Alabama rig. For ANY
> builder who is also a fisherman describing the
> conditions, the line test; the lure weights etc
> will be much more helpful than "medium light"

I definitely would think it would, Ken. This is the kind of information I was looking for, What do rod builders do and value, that make their rods better. Thanks

Tom Osthoff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been building custom bass rods for myself
> for 20 years or so. I build them because I can not
> buy a commercial rod that can even come close to
> the quality and specific specifications that I can
> build for myself. I build mostly on St. Croix SC-V
> Blanks. The first thing i do to the blank is void
> it's warrenty be removing all the paint/finish
> from it. This reduces the blanks weight thereby
> making it more sensitive and makes it a lot easier
> to repair or alter guide placement in the future.
> I have some rods that are 30 years old that I have
> upgraded the guide systems on three times or so.
> My favorite jerkbait rod is a Loomis IM6 6' Medium
> Action rod I bought back in 1979. I stripped the
> orginal guides and finish and rebuilt with #3
> micro's. I bought two of these rods back then and
> still have one that is a orginal. I love to hand
> these two rods to guys and ask them what they
> think of them. They can not believe that they were
> identical factory rods.
>
> Calvin, the best answer to your question was
> answered already by Steve Gardner in the above
> post. I agree 100% with Steve's comments.


Tom, thanks for posting. In the statement above about altering the blank, that is exactly what kind of information I'm looking for. As I'm a neophyte, that is something I never would have thought about doing and why I ask you guys who are experts at the craft.

Glad you agree with Steve's because, so far he's really given out some information of value to someone like me.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tend to agree with Gary on this subject.
>
> There is a very big difference in blanks. There is
> a big difference in using a blank that weighs 3
> ozs, and one of the same length and power that
> weighs 1 oz.
>
> But as far as guides are concerned, Pac Bay minima
> - are plenty strong, plenty smooth, wear well, and
> are very inexpensive. By using a split grip, you
> will have a lighter and less expensive rod.
> Basically a butt cap to balance out the rod and a
> long enough back grip to nicely hold the reel. No
> need for a fore grip, but I prefer to use a full
> reel seat, and not one that is split.
>
> If you use the same blank, but then equip it with
> $30 worth of guides, grips and reel seat, I dare
> say you will find that it fishes very little
> different than the same blank with $200 worth of
> guides, grip and reel seat.
>
> Also, you will find that the finished weight of
> the two rods is not that much different.
>
> Be safe

I agree with this to a point. There are a number of bass fisherman out there (myself included) who do more than drop anchor on a Sunday with a few cans of sud's.

I may fish (4-5) 8 to 10 hour practice days for a tournament. Come tournament day, fatigue does set in when you need to be on your game the most. This is the point where 1 - 3 ounces is a BIG DIFFERENCE (for me).

As far as the pros go, if you think those rods are production rods, you are kidding yourself! Usually they will admit they are "prototypes"

i always did feel sorry for KVD

Ultimate bass rod? I built one using a 7ft Batson blank, Fuji reel seat, split EVA grip and Hardloy guides. All the stuff I got from Karen at Bingham. (My first build) Cost me around $135.00 to build. To me it's the ultimate bass rod. Only one I use now and I've caught lots of bass with it. St Croix, Loomis make good rods/blanks. Save some money and buy a decent blank/rod and you'll get the same years of enjoyment from them. Heck, my "frog rod" is an Ugly Stil Lite with braid, caught lots of bass with it and plan on catching many more. Expensive tackle catches fisherman as was said previously.

calvin the answer is any good rodbuilder can make a better rod than any 'store bought rod' because he custom builds it the way you want it. some examples are the handle can be made to specifically fit your hand, the guides can be static tested to get maximum distance and fish fighting power, and you can get the latest and greatest like micro guides which were available way before they were used on commercially available rods. lastly you can build a rod but its kind of hard to build a reel. as for the original subject you asked for the ultimate bass rod and i gave you my formula.