First, let me say "Hello all" and thanks for letting me join your forum. Lots of good information here. Second, I want to say that I have about ZERO interest in actually building rods. I am a bass fisherman and am currently looking at buying some new rods for my collection. What I would like to know is, if you could build the ultimate bass fishing rod (yes, I realize technique specificity, weight, performance, durability, etc.are all metrics of consideration and there are trade offs that are sometimes at odds with the aforementioned metrics) but, taking everything into account, and saying "price is no object", what would you fine rod builders do? What blanks would you use for a given application? What guides would you use? Would you use EVA, cork, etc.? What would be the top guides you would use and why?

I realize this is a large category but I'm really interested in the details of what everybody would use.

For me, I like the G.Loomis NRX series. Do they have faults? I'm sure they do but as far as weight, balance, "feel", to me (with my limited knowledge) they are what I would want.

My question to you guys is, if you had a customer that wanted an NRX-like rod, what are ALL the components that you would use and why would you use them. Also, if you think they are just overpriced crap, why would you say that and what would you do differently?

I really look forward to you fine, knowledgeable people's replie.

THanks so much.

Calvin,

I'm not an expert rod builder but I've dibbled and dabbled and currently shopping for my next few blanks to wrap before the upcoming bass season in Michigan. For me I can relate to you in the sense that you seem like you are a guy that likes good/functional equipment.

This is what drew me to rod building. There are a ton of manufactures today and they all have some very nice features and characteristics but in production rods, there are some things that I find lacking at times. So I got to thinking, well what if I took some of these blanks and made them the way that I wanted them? And that's how it was birthed.

My example would be my first build, a St Croix Avid 7-0MFC. I love that rod. But it was 200 dollars (i'm a bass fisherman on a budget, no NRX for me) and at the end of the day, I just wanted it to be different. The Avid line is very old school but very elegant. The Rage series, uses the same blank, a little more modern, but I hated the components. So I built my own Avid.

For me, what I wanted was a split reel seat, EVA split grip/no foregrip and alconite guides. So I got the blank and got my Fuji components and put it together and it awesome. It's everything I wanted it to be. But I want to do better.

So for my next builds, I'm sticking with EVA split grip. The reel seat I used previously was the SK2. Not a big fan after fishing with it. So i'm going with Fuji's oldy but goody ECSM and i'm going to split that reel seat. Its way more comfortable, low profile and light weight. As for guides, i'm sticking with Alconites, but going with Micros.

For someone like yourself, wanting the best, I recommend the same things, if money wasn't an issue for me, i'd go with SiC guides instead of Alconites. But other than that, I feel like those features make up the "perfect" rod for what I do.

Those features will give you a rod that is lightweight and efficient. The only other thing is for your builder to balance the rod.

One other thing to consider is blanks. There are 1000's!!! Rod building allows us to pick blanks that are perfect for what the intended purpose is for that particular rod. Every manufactures blanks are different. Find something that is perfect for what you want to do with it.

Hope that helps.

I'm not a bass guy...mostly saltwater is my thing.

I would say the answers would change depending on what the rod is being built for. I would pick way different guides for a heavy punch/flipping/jig & pig type rod than a drop shot/shakey head type rod. For one I might lean towards a very durable blank and for the other a nice light sensitive blank.

Other things are highly personal. Some guys don't want anything but cork. Some like a split grip and some think they look terrible. Some like bling/looks. Others like stealth.

Point is each rod needs to be built for a particular purpose and angler. There is no "one size fits all" recipe.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Agreed. Thanks guys. Yep, preference is paramount for any given customer and any given rod builder. That's exactly what I'm trying to suss out. Everybody's opinion on any givern application and why. Keep 'em comin'.

Calvin,
If you like G Loomis rods than buy a rod from the man himself Gary Loomis at Edge Rods. You'll get a better stick.
Northfork Composites/Edge Rods sponsor to the left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2014 04:21PM by Spencer Phipps.

Jose Garza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Calvin,
>
> I'm not an expert rod builder but I've dibbled and
> dabbled and currently shopping for my next few
> blanks to wrap before the upcoming bass season in
> Michigan. For me I can relate to you in the sense
> that you seem like you are a guy that likes
> good/functional equipment.
>
> This is what drew me to rod building. There are a
> ton of manufactures today and they all have some
> very nice features and characteristics but in
> production rods, there are some things that I find
> lacking at times. So I got to thinking, well what
> if I took some of these blanks and made them the
> way that I wanted them? And that's how it was
> birthed.
>
> My example would be my first build, a St Croix
> Avid 7-0MFC. I love that rod. But it was 200
> dollars (i'm a bass fisherman on a budget, no NRX
> for me) and at the end of the day, I just wanted
> it to be different. The Avid line is very old
> school but very elegant. The Rage series, uses the
> same blank, a little more modern, but I hated the
> components. So I built my own Avid.
>
> For me, what I wanted was a split reel seat, EVA
> split grip/no foregrip and alconite guides. So I
> got the blank and got my Fuji components and put
> it together and it awesome. It's everything I
> wanted it to be. But I want to do better.
>
> So for my next builds, I'm sticking with EVA split
> grip. The reel seat I used previously was the SK2.
> Not a big fan after fishing with it. So i'm going
> with Fuji's oldy but goody ECSM and i'm going to
> split that reel seat. Its way more comfortable,
> low profile and light weight. As for guides, i'm
> sticking with Alconites, but going with Micros.
>
> For someone like yourself, wanting the best, I
> recommend the same things, if money wasn't an
> issue for me, i'd go with SiC guides instead of
> Alconites. But other than that, I feel like those
> features make up the "perfect" rod for what I do.
>
>
> Those features will give you a rod that is
> lightweight and efficient. The only other thing is
> for your builder to balance the rod.
>
> One other thing to consider is blanks. There are
> 1000's!!! Rod building allows us to pick blanks
> that are perfect for what the intended purpose is
> for that particular rod. Every manufactures blanks
> are different. Find something that is perfect for
> what you want to do with it.
>
> Hope that helps.


It does help and your thinking is pretty close in-line with my thought process. One question, you say there are 1000's of rod blank manufacturers, my question, are there really. I just attended the Houston Fishing Show, and, like I said, rod building really hold no interest for me in and of itsself, BUT, when I'd walk up to some custom rod builder and ask, "What blanks do you use" the vast majority said "Oh, they're mine". Well, that tells me right away you're lying. There are way more rod builders than there are manufacturers of the actual blanks. Why not just say I use Lamiglass, MHX, or St. Croix or whatever. Don't understand the need for deception.

for me first you need a two hundred some dollar blank, north fork composite hm's or phenix k2's work and then get some fuji torzite titainium guides which adds another hundred and your favorite reel seat like a fuji ecsm cut down to save weight and 'voila' the ultimate bass rod. expensive but better and cheaper than an nrx if you do it yourself. or will probably cost the same if you have a rodbuilder from here do it but take warning once you get a custom rod you might never go back

This super bass rod you are designing is retched excess and over kill.
Pride of ownership aside, we are talking about little green fish that seldom exceed 6 or 7 pounds and have very little stamina.
The Smallmouth version is spunkier, but they seldom exceed 5 pounds.

Super hard, fast heat dispersing guide rings are wasted on a fish that isn't going to pull more than a couple of feet of line...!
Stainless frames on about size 5 guides is fine with me. I don't believe you are saving significant weight be using titanium.
Duralite, Hialoy Hardloy rings are hard enough to handle any line you might use for Bass.

Rod blanks of about IM7 are light, cheap and durable.
If you think you will have more stamina if you reduce the weight of your fishing rod, you might spend the money more wisely at Weight Watchers!
The truth is the change in your pocket weighs more than the difference between a $40 and a $400 dollar blank.

Any mid-priced reel seat will do. Your not going to hook the Tokyo Express.
I like cork handles, I have a belly and think EVA snags, drags on my clothes.

If nothing is on sale, you can build this rod for under $100.00 and spend the other $300.00+ on wine women and song...or you can just waste it.
Garry2rs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2014 06:56PM by Garry Thornton.

What you are looking for is a true custom rod. What is the "Ultimate Bass Rod" for you may be the Ultimate Pos for someone else.

Having said that, what are the faults with the NRX that bother you? If you came into my shop asking the same question I would ask you to bring your NRX with you. We would discuss the good, bad and the ugly and I would show you a few things, take a few measurements of your hand, and reel and possibly send you out with something to try for a few days. Within short order we would design together your "Ultimate Bass Rod". That is what custom rods are about.

Vic

Gary is right on

You are over thinking this
There are tooo many companies making blanks that are the Right Priced and work Very Well for the fish you are after

A rod is a tool It is how you fish -- where you fish - the way you fish - The Bait you use
make it light so it performs as a Bare Blank As soon as you add guides - thread - finish You slow it down

The rod does not catch the fish - All of the above is what catches fish

Bill - willierods.com

Any amount spent on any rod is above someone's perception of worth. I can buy a Lambo or I can drive 1984 K car. They both will (most likely) get me downtown. I can catch bass from a Johnboat or a 60K Ranger. Uglysticks work too.

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gary is right on
>
> You are over thinking this
> There are tooo many companies making blanks that
> are the Right Priced and work Very Well for the
> fish you are after
>
> A rod is a tool It is how you fish -- where you
> fish - the way you fish - The Bait you use
> make it light so it performs as a Bare Blank As
> soon as you add guides - thread - finish You slow
> it down
>
> The rod does not catch the fish - All of the above
> is what catches fish


No doubt expensive rods are designed to catch fisherman first. What blanks, etc, would you think that would be "right priced"?

In Golf it's sometime said that someone is "Trying to buy a game."
Some folks who fish and are always searching for the "Best" might be guilty of the same thing.
Back around the Millennium, I was somewhat involved in sales.
I recall well moneyed anglers asking tackle shop clerks "Which rod should I buy next?"
To solve this problem, we got Species Specific Rods and Technique Specific Rods...
This reminds me of another old saying, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Bye-the-way...If you had one of my new Frog Rods...Well let's just say Dean Rojas would be in deep dodo!

I thoroughly enjoy my MHX cranking rod, micro guides really light and the whole thing was around $100. I used to be one of the bass fisherman that had a rod for this and that and the other all really high quality high dollar gear and one day I went fishing with a friend using a shakespeare firebird from walmart. That day he caught a 6lber and a 5lber back to back casts on that little bitty thing. To me as long as a blank is well balanced and fairly light weight.. it's good enough. My rod doesn't have to say Loomis to catch even a 10lb bass, as long as it is comfortable to you that's all that matters. I really do feel the MHX are one of the better bargains out there though and can't imagine another blank doing a much better job

Calvin,

Yes, to answer your question or clarify my initial statement, there are a ton of "manufactures." What I mean by that are the companies that market rods. St. Croix, Loomis, NFC, Phenix, 13 Fishing, Lamiglas, etc... there are a ton of companies mass producing rods. Where they get their blanks is another deal. Some make their own, others have a supplier from someone who does make their own.

I also said there are "1000's" of blanks. And I stand by that as well. There may only be a few companies making blanks but there is a huge selection of blanks to choose from. The beauty of that is that there is a darn near perfect blank for whatever your intended purpose will be for that particular rod and you don't have to be limited by a brand. A Lamiglas XMG LP842 might be the perfect dropshot rod for me, while a Phenix m1 7-8H is the perfect flipping stick for me. It could be different for you.

I hope that explains my original comments.

Calvin;
I've a different perspective then some of these guys. Mostly because I bass fish for money, fishing as many as 32 -35 tournaments a year, some years spending almost 200 days on the water.
When competing I want the best most efficient, sensitive, balanced, set ups possible.

Even a little bit of difference in improved performance that just means one extra fish can equal a few thousand extra dollars at the end of the day.
So I’m not going to take the chance of just using the rod that might do a decent job. I want the best tools possible!

That means buying and using the best blanks, best guides, and in your case finding the builder who can design them to work as efficiently as possible.

Most important to you is finding the builder who understands this and can build what you need. I've handled many rods built with top of the line components that were built so poorly that they are no better then what you would buy in a box store.
There can be vast differences between rod assemblers and rod designers, even though both claim to have built you a custom rod.

If I were fly fishing I would find builder who specializes in building fly rods, if salt water fishing would find a builder who specializes in salt water rods. Same for bass fishing or any other type of fishing, in most cases the builders who specialize understand the nuances involved for building tools for catching that fish and will build you a better product.

My product choices would be:
In most cases- Blank choices would be Batson RX8+ blanks or St Croix SC-V
In most cases- Guide choices would be Baton Micro guides or Fuji.
Except for top water- Handle choices would always be graphite.


The Loomis NRX rods are decent rods, but do not compare to what can be built custom by a good builder. They have done an excellent job of marketing, thus creating an assumed value above what they are truly worth.

Hi Calvin
I think I can built you the Ultimate Bass Rod. I am very well known around the Globe. and if some one wants the Ultimate Rod they Contact me, if you are interested in having a rod built, E-mail me or call 304 322 0055.
Mark Crouse - The Munich Rod Man

Steve Gardner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Calvin;
> I've a different perspective then some of these
> guys. Mostly because I bass fish for money,
> fishing as many as 32 -35 tournaments a year, some
> years spending almost 200 days on the water.
> When competing I want the best most efficient,
> sensitive, balanced, set ups possible.
>
> Even a little bit of difference in improved
> performance that just means one extra fish can
> equal a few thousand extra dollars at the end of
> the day.
> So I’m not going to take the chance of just
> using the rod that might do a decent job. I want
> the best tools possible!
>
> That means buying and using the best blanks, best
> guides, and in your case finding the builder who
> can design them to work as efficiently as
> possible.
>
> Most important to you is finding the builder who
> understands this and can build what you need. I've
> handled many rods built with top of the line
> components that were built so poorly that they are
> no better then what you would buy in a box store.
> There can be vast differences between rod
> assemblers and rod designers, even though both
> claim to have built you a custom rod.
>
> If I were fly fishing I would find builder who
> specializes in building fly rods, if salt water
> fishing would find a builder who specializes in
> salt water rods. Same for bass fishing or any
> other type of fishing, in most cases the builders
> who specialize understand the nuances involved for
> building tools for catching that fish and will
> build you a better product.
>
> My product choices would be:
> In most cases- Blank choices would be Batson RX8+
> blanks or St Croix SC-V
> In most cases- Guide choices would be Baton Micro
> guides or Fuji.
> Except for top water- Handle choices would always
> be graphite.
>
>
> The Loomis NRX rods are decent rods, but do not
> compare to what can be built custom by a good
> builder. They have done an excellent job of
> marketing, thus creating an assumed value above
> what they are truly worth.



Yea, your philosophy seems more congruent with my own. Your statement about the NRX's is what I assumed but have yet to see a custom rod that I felt compared. As I said, I was at the Houston Fishing Show and there were quite a nuber of "custom rod builders" there and save one, they left me less than impressed.

You guys both drank the Kool Aide...Now you will die from Hypo-extreme-ia
KVD uses Quantum rods that retail under $200.00.
When Skeet Reese was on a tear a few years ago, he was using Wright-McGill rods that sold for about $100.00.
Wake-up and smell the coffee...It's the Singer, not the Song!

Garry Thornton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys both drank the Kool Aide...Now you will
> die from Hypo-extreme-ia
> KVD uses Quantum rods that retail under $200.00.
> When Skeet Reese was on a tear a few years ago, he
> was using Wright-McGill rods that sold for about
> $100.00.
> Wake-up and smell the coffee...It's the Singer,
> not the Song!


If true, then in your opinion, why have custom rods at all? Why not get Ugly sticks and have at it? Or a cane pole and live bait? I think it also bears observing that KVD gets paid a substantial (I would think) sum of money to use Quantums. I wonder what he would use if he was paying the bill? This also made me think of one time when I was in Mexico. I was just casting off the dock waiting for my guide and there was a guy next to me that used artificials with mono over a 24oz beer can. He could cast a pretty good distance too. My point being is that for ANY given application, whatever metric we use, as far as loosely based on the act of fishing, that metric is a subjective metric.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2014 01:40PM by Calvin Goforth.