Hello,

I plan to buy a real lathe (not a power wrapper) to make custom handles, and I need some advise, please.

My need is a lathe who have a powerful motor, and can handle rods up to 8 foot.
I want to turn EVA, cork, and wood.

What's the best option ? A modified wood lathe with rods support ? Another idea ?

Thanks in advance.

I don't believe you want to put a rod blank into something as powerful as a wood lathe. The chance of quickly and instantly destroying it is fairly good.

To turn handles and grips, your lathe only needs to be as long as those items are. No need to turn them on the rod, and perhaps outside of say, cork handles, I see no reason not to turn them separate and then mount them to the rod afterwards.

..............

In fact, I need to turn very long handles up to 25'', and reaming these long handles in not simple and off center can happened, and mainly with very long EVA grips.
For this reason I want to turn them directly on the blank.

For information, I have try a homemade lathe (with a drill), but for EVA grips I do keep the speed high because at slow rpm the sanding is not good, but with high speed and no real power (because drill motor), the EVA is overheat (soften) too much.

What your advice ?

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2013 06:00PM by Lindsay PELLETIER.

Not sure your going to find one tool to do all you say you want. Turning wood on a blank is frought with problems due to the speed you will need, I can envision a lot of destroyed blanks with this process!

I learned to turn cork handles on 9' blanks on a lathe with a 4' bed, however that lathe had a #3 morse taper for the head stock and a very large 3 jaw chuck. The rod had to be put tip first through the hole in the center of the headstock so the tip section was sticking out of the headstock opposite the tail stock. I had to use masking tape to cushion the grip of the chuck jaws and where the rod tip exited the rear of the head stock I had to slide a cork plug down the tip of the blank that then fit into the end of the rear of that portion of the morse taper. Then the tail stock was run up with a live center into the open end of the butt of the rod. Now when you turned the lathe on the end of the tip would start to whip around, so you had to place a piece of tape at the apex of the whip to help eliminate the whip. some times you had to reposition the tape a little, or make it a longer piece to eliminate the whip.

One time I forgot to put the cork plug in the end of the lathe and I was lucky not to have scored the blank so that it would be unusable. Use your wood lathe for wood. You can turn your cork on the blank on your blank on your lathe. Tom recently published a short article by me where he added a very good diagram of how to place the tape to eliminate the whip in a longer rod.

I think that trying to turn cork and wood at the same time is a poor choice any way. Different tools are needed for both due to the materials being turned.

Wood lathes with 30 to 36 inch beds are plentiful. Try a Nova 1624-44. Outstanding lathe at a great price.

..............

YOu're not going to get the best results if you have a 25" length grip and can only support the blank at the butt end (chuck) and 26-27" away )ahead of teh grip. There will be a lot of bouncing around. If you are wanting to go this route anyway, teh Renzetti is a great unit to shape EVA/cork handles with the way you are wanting to do it.

YOu can get a wood lathe with an extension bed that will do what you want for less than $500 (Turncrafter is one of a few in this price range). A JEt or Delta midi is the next step up in the $800 range. The one TOm mentioned was on sale a few months ago in the $8--900 range, but I think it is regularly priced at $1200. YOu are also going to have to get mandrels custom made, for this LAnce at Swampland and SCott at Fishsticks (I think) will be able to do this for you.

I bought my jet 1220 from a woodturner for cheap and picked up a bed extension later. He was getting rid of it because he had upgraded to a larger nova lathe that had the swivel head. He got it about half off the retail. He bought it refurbished. If you go to nova's site, teknatool, you can find refurbished lathes. If you keep an eye out you can get a good deal. Also, if you live close to a woodcraft, they sell their floor models at discounts. The one I used to live close to just had their sale off the floor models they use for the demonstration classes.

With that said, Billy is right on. You need to get a quality machine if you want to turn it on the blank. I have an old used Clemens wrapper I bought off the buy/sell here. It doesn't have the turning motor, but it has enough umph to turn and shape eva on the blank. Just be sure you have enough supports to support the blank. I don't turn on the power wrapper often, but will when I have to. I'm not sure how the Renzetti would do with turning wood, but for most other mediums, it should work, and you'd also have one sweet power wrapper.

I bought my jet 1220 from a woodturner for cheap and picked up a bed extension later. He was getting rid of it because he had upgraded to a larger nova lathe that had the swivel head. He got it about half off the retail. He bought it refurbished. If you go to nova's site, teknatool, you can find refurbished lathes. If you keep an eye out you can get a good deal. Also, if you live close to a woodcraft, they sell their floor models at discounts. The one I used to live close to just had their sale off the floor models they use for the demonstration classes.

With that said, Billy is right on. You need to get a quality machine if you want to turn it on the blank. I have an old used Clemens wrapper I bought off the buy/sell here. It doesn't have the turning motor, but it has enough umph to turn and shape eva on the blank. Just be sure you have enough supports to support the blank. I don't turn on the power wrapper often, but will when I have to. I'm not sure how the Renzetti would do with turning wood, but for most other mediums, it should work, and you'd also have one sweet power wrapper.

What kind of rods have a 25" butt on them ???

What about a split grip Shorter pieces to turn

If the butt of the rod is large you can wrap cork tape on it also

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2013 04:22PM by bill boettcher.

Lindsay,
I made a couple of full length rod lathes a few years ago and have turned many many handles on them.

A nearby rod shop has 3 full length rod lathes on which they have turned thousands of handles over the last 20 years.

It is pretty easy to make on.

My lathe uses a 3/4 hp 3600 rpm buffer motor that has a 1/2 X 20 thread on the end of the motor. I simply screwed a 1/2 inch keyless chuck to the end of the buffer motor shaft.

Whenever I use the lathe, I put in a solid piece of rod stock, or metal shaft, and use masking tape as necessary to buil up the rod stock for a firm fit of the rod stock into the end of the rod that is going to be turned. All of this work is done on a rod with no butt cap, which leaves the end of the rod blank open for access to the lathe.

I have a 10 foot long base with a 1/4 inch slot milled the full length of the base, leaving a couple of short spots which are not milled, to insure that the base remains stable.

Then, I have made about 10 ball bearing rod supports. Each of the rod supports were made with an aluminum base, two vertical rods to support the two aluminum cross bars. The lower cross bar has two ball bearings that are centered and nearly touching. The upper cross bar has a single bearing that is centered over the two lower bearings.

The motor starts instantly and runs at 3600 rpm. So, it is important that the rod be properly supported at spots where there is no chance for harmonic oscillation.

I take masking tape about put about three wraps of masking tape over the rod to protect the blank from any stresses caused by the ball bearings running at the high speed.

When I start the lathe, I keep my hand on the rod, so that I can check for oscillation and keep the other hand on the switch, to turn the motor off, if oscillation develops.

When I place the rod rests on the rod, I generally place the first one about 24-30 inches from the lathe chuck. Then, I temporarily place another one about 2 feet further down the rod for initial power on tests.

If I find that the rod is starting to bounce or oscillate, I quickly shut off the motor to stop damage to the blank. But, I will first generally just start with one rod rest, and then with the motor started, run my hand down the blank to find the spots of no oscillation or quiet. Then, I make sure that the rod rest is placed exactly on that spot. Then, I will start the motor again, and go further down the rod to find the next quiet spot on the rod. If the rod is a very very light action with a very soft tip, I will generally have one rod rest right at the very end of the rod blank to prevent any whipping.


For heavier rods, all that is necessary are two rod rests and the rod runs quietly and true. With a lighter action rod, I may have to go up to 5 rod rests, to insure that the rod doesn't begin to go into destructive oscillation.

For the first rods that you try, get an old scrap blank and get your setup initialized. Then, after that, it will be much easier and normally little adjustment of the supports are necessary.

Now, if you decide to spin a rod, that has guides on it. Take similar sized and weighted guides and tape them securely on the opposite sides of the blank. With out counterbalancing a heavy or large guide, it will be very difficult to have a smooth running rod.

I haven't used my full length rod lathe for a while, but if you wanted me to send pictures, I could always take it out of storage, and snap some for you.

I do have some pictures of the rod rests.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

This sort of absolute rock solid rod rest is imperative to support a rod that is spinning at 3600 rpm. You don't want the rod bouncing around or anything else.

If you have any further questions, or pictures needed, just drop me an e-mail

hflier@comcast.net

As I said, I have turned several hundred rod handles on this full length rod lathe with 0 issues.

An adjacent rod shop with a half dozen builders had turned several thousand rod handles on their full length rod lathes.

By the way, for the rod shop, they use a built in 10 foot kitchen counter top with the head stock mounted at one end. In their case, they use a belt drive, with the motor mounted under the table, in a manner similar to some of the commercial older lathes. The belt runs through the counter top up to the head stock to drive the same 1/2 inch keyless chuck that I use. They use slots milled into the counter top that are each about 3 feet long - at stratigic locations to secure rod rests that are identical to the ones that I use.

So, YES< a full length - 3600 rpm 3/4 hp drive motor lathe is not only possible but is commercially successful. Obviously, this lathe must not be used with out adequate training, or some serious results could occur.

Be safe

Roger

By the way,
My cost for the lathe was as follows:

Surplus buffer motor - $30
Keyless chuck - $20.
2-dozen skate board bearings for the rod rests - $20
One 1X8x10 foot pine board for the rod lathe base - $9.
Surplus alumi num for the rod rest bases and cross members - $15.
Assorted nuts and bolts and wiring for the motor $20.

Time - tor the bed mill work, and finishing, and motor mounting and wiring - about 4 hours.
Time to machine all of the rod rests - 10 - about 35 hours.

Each of these mounts use drilled holes and many are also tapped for machine bolts to secure the bearings in place. the vertical rods are threaded and the bases are drilled and tapped to secure the vertical rods.

But the effort has been well worth it and the lathe has paid for itself many many times over.

With this type lathe, there is no tool rest. All of the handle shaping is simply done with various grades of sandpaper. But, all of this work goes very quickly due to the fact that the handle is spinning at 3600 rpm.

I would rather use a faster spin rate, and a gentle hand on the paper, than a slower spin rate and a heavy hand on the paper.

Be safe
Roger

Thanks to all for your suggestion and answers.

Since I want a very good lathe (better than I can home made), I think I will buy a renzetti lathe with some options such as the motor turning who have more power than a wrapping motor.
Anyone know the electrical power (in watts) of this turning motor ?

Thanks again for your help.

Lindsay,
The renzetti lathe is a really great lathe for wrapping rods.

But, if you want to turn grips, a renzetti or any other Wrapping lathe is not the BEST lathe for turning grips.

You can turn grips on a renzetti lathe, but if you do a lot or if you turn hard materials, you still want a separate - more powerful conventional lathe for that task.

It is also to your overall work advantage if you can separate your rod building, wrapping and finish work in one area - but have your handle turning with its SEPARATE lathe in a different area in a different building or a different room - to prevent dust inclusion in your finished work.

Enjoy.

I agree with Roger. Turning the lengthy grips you describe would be better performed on a lathe than a modified wrapper. Personally, I wouldn't turn such weighty grips on the blank; I would turn them on a steel mandrel between centers. Given the use you describe, I feel this is one case where you really need the best tool for the job, not the one that might work if you are really careful.

For the renzetti lathe:

You mention that power wrapper is not good for turning grip, and I totally agree on this, but I speak about the turning motor available (with more power) in option, not the wrapping motor.
Anyone have ever use this motor on the renzetti ? Billy, maybe ?

Thanks at all for your answers.

The problem you WILL run into with a 25" grip mounted on a rod is you will not be able to support teh grip as it bounces and wobbles all over the place. If you purchase teh tailstock, you will be able to do it, but only with a mandrel. You are going to need a custom mandrel about 30" long to turn a 25" grip. IMO, you should make your grip 12 1/2" long in 2 setions, turn them down slightly oversized, then glue them together and mount them on the blank. Then you can do minimal turning to get the seam even, and it won't be vibrating and wobbling too much due to teh short length of time it should take you to get the grip even.

I used to have a 1/4HP motor on my Clemens lathe, I purchased it seperately and it worked great. I think it's a good option, and it will turn EVA and cork without a problem. I would do most of my shaping on my wood lathe and the finish sanding with my 1/4HP. I think you are going to invest a lot of money in the REnzetti with the motor, tool rest and tailstock, additional supports - probably almost as much as it would cost you to get a PSI wood lathe.

Yes as Billy stated, and both Roger and I alluded to, the problem is not providing adequate power, but rather adequate stability. This kind of turning you are describing will require a stout headstock and tailstock in addition to requisite minimum power and speed from a motor. You are not going to be able to turn this safely at a high enough speed to shape foam using standard rod supports.

If you want to turn as you described, you need a lathe not a wrapper. Lathe's have the power, speed, headstock, tailstock, and necessary mass (VERY IMPORTANT and often overlooked by novice turners) to absorb or dampen the irregular mass of a spinning eccentric grip. You will also need a steel mandrel to minimize the eccentric forces that would be generated by turning on a flexible blank.

You might want to check with your local school to see if they offer a class on turning, this would help you understand why a wrapper like you describe won't work as you want it to.

Thanks Billy and other for your answers.
I will think about all your suggestion.

Thanks again at all.