Billy Vivona Wrote:
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> The best method I came up with was not grinding
> them at all.


Let me guess... D thread, right? Certainly not on a BYAG 25J with A thread. That would be one ugly guide wrap. ;)

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

YOu could wrap a 25 with A thread and get it to look clean, but it would be harder than wrapping with B or D thread. Even with B or D, you still have to have some skills to get it to go up the guide foot

And you'd be much more likely to get a finish crack at the edge of the foot to thread junction.

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Billy Vivona Wrote:
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> YOu could wrap a 25 with A thread and get it to
> look clean, but it would be harder than wrapping
> with B or D thread. Even with B or D, you still
> have to have some skills to get it to go up the
> guide foot

Just having fun with you Billy. No one doubts your mad skills!

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

This guy has every grit in every size belt in every type!

[www.supergrit.com]

That looks like a good source. and for guide prep it doesn't have to be rated for metal. The wood belts like his Al Oxide will do a great job.

Tom is right!! In another thread on a different web site Mr. Vivona said not to give bad advise. I think that is especially true here.

REgarding guide foot cracking - how does one explain grinding guides and the guide foot cracks anyway? What I've learned is that the epoxy cracks for reasons other than grinding them down. How else could I explain that when I used to grind guides, they would crack, and when I no longer grind them, they crack less?

I feel that thread size, tension, epoxy, guide selection, and how the blank bends has more to do with reducing the amount of cracking than does solely grinding the guide.

I have been using the AO and some of the SIC belts

I don't know. The shallower the slope up from the guide foot is the more flexible the end of the guide foot is going to be, which should alleviate some amount of checking and cracking. In my experience it does reduce cracking by a large margin.

It might be an interesting experiment to build two identical rods, one with nicely tapered guide feet and one with no prep, and putting each one under similar loads for the same number of times find out which shows less checking and cracking.

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Tom, I think you are right on mark. It would be a good test. An even better test would be to see how much time and effort it would be to wrap size A thread on a size #25 guide without prepping the guide and how the finished wrap would look, compared to a guide that had been properly shaped and prepared.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2013 07:12PM by Randolph Ruwe.

That would be an interesting test, you wouldn't even need to wrap 2 different rods, just wrap teh guides on teh same blank one on top of the other offset a little bit.

Unless you are prepping the entire length of the foot and making it thinner along the entire length, the guide isn't going to be as flexible as the blank, and even then I don't think teh stainless/titanium is as flexible as the blank.

As far as how much time it would take with size A, you'd have to stop and hand turn for 10-15 turns to get it up the guide foot then pack teh thread back down the foot. YOu have to do teh same with B or D thread, it's just a bit easier obviously. It's not that difficult with how the guides are pre-prepped from teh manufacturer, and I'm not saying they are perfect or as good as one would do, but they are good enough to get teh thread up pretty easily.

For this test as well as using the same guides and the same blanks be sure to use the same epoxy - same brand, same tubes, same mixed batch, applied at the same time and cured under the same conditions. Occam's razor suggests if some epoxy is cracking and some isn't the cause is most likely something different about the epoxy.

Just finished wrapping a set of double foot Fuji k's onto a Race Point 200 blank built spinning.
That is a 200Lb class blank parabolic action for those who are not familiar with them.
It will flex right into the butt.
Obviously had to do lots of testing to get it right to where i was happy.

Hung a bucket of water off tip while rod was in my down rigger to see where things were flexing : any flex on the guide feet/blank interface was at a scale i could not see with my naked eyes.
That does not mean it does not exist, just means i cannot see it.
It has to exist at some level with all that flex.
Only prepped the 16's near the tip: the 40 30 and 25's were very good from the factory and easily wrapped with D..

Would love to see better tests than i did with perhaps marks (single A threads in under wrap at edge of foot?) and photos that can be blown up to see better what is happening under flex.
Make a great article for the magazine perhaps?
I used a few coats of PG below feet on underwrap and above for when the top coats of epoxy cracks.
I have not seen cracks in PG even on parabolic blanks.

The best way I have found to prep guides is with a Dremel Tool and a Dremel #425 Polishing Wheel. It works great, moves material very quickly and leave the guide foot polished and really to wrap.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Even in a heavily flexed position, the amount of flex per inch will be very slight. But you're right - it is there and is why you get finish cracking at the end of the guide foot. Guides are generally stiffer than the blank and will resist that flex, usually prying up just a bit where the foot end is. This is what causes those little checks and cracks. A thinner foot end is less stiff and will tend to bend rather than just lift up.

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On spin rods and fly rods, with guides beneath the blank, the greatest pressure on the ends of guide feet is down, against the blank, especially if you pull hard against a fish or a snag. The opposite is true of the on-top guides of casting rods. If the flexibility of the guide foot is the key to epoxy cracking at the ends of guide feet it would be remarkable if this phenomenon is equally frequent regardless of whether the guide is over or under the blank. When a tubular blank flexes it deforms toward an oval. Could the thread windings and the rigidity of the entire guide resist this deformation under stress, creating a rapid transition from tubular to oval at the end of the guide and over- stressing the epoxy at that point?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2013 02:19PM by Phil Ewanicki.

The cracking will occur on either type rod. Flex occurs in both directions, regardless of rod type. Don't forget about casting.

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Another interesting and thought provoking subject.

On another forum it seems the dremel is the preferred tool but I personally use a cheap 1X30 inch Belt Sander from a popular importer of fine Chinese tools.

While you can buy cheap ($3.00) 5 packs of belts from here I prefer to use "Gold" AO belts that have a very flexible backing.

I also personally recommend getting yourself a "Abrasive Cleaning Stick" to clean clogged sanding belts instead of tossing the old belts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2013 10:50AM by Ron Hossack.

I'm not sure how difficult it is but the elastic modulus (resistance to cracking failure) of materials can be determined in a laboratory, including how this elastic modulus varies with temperature change. This information would be valuable to rod makers, and manufacturers could afford the cost of such tests and publishing the results.