Hi all,

I've been gleaning excellent information from this site for years and decided to register and join in.

I am looking to get started on a 11' 8wt TFO Deer Creek switch rod that I am building up for a friend. The TFO site offers a guide spacing but not the sizing, as I have never built anything but standard fly rods, I am looking for advice on guide sizing for a rod of this size. Also, TFO recommends 20 and 16 for stripping guides but I know that they tend to oversize the stippers on fly rods. Does a rod this size need a size 20 stripping guide? I was actually surprised they do not recommend three strippers. I'd love to hear from some experience switch rod builders/fishermen.

Thank you,
John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2013 11:06PM by John Calsbeek.

No need for a 20, start with 16 then 12, the rest running guides the size you would use any 8 wt fly rod.

Thanks Phil. That makes so much sense that I didn't think of it!

You might wish to go with larger running guides than you would with a rod designed for regular fly lines. He will have a running line connected by loops to his switch head and again loops connecting either a floating tip or sinking tip. Most switch and spey rods have larger guides to allow for these loops.

Good to know Randolph. Thanks.

All guides are sized to the line being used

BUT

You have to check to make sure Your Line and knots will pass thought the guides

Sorry it takes a little Experimenting

Bill - willierods.com

Larger includes the tip also. Mudhole has extra large fly rod tips. That is what I use on all of my switch/spey rods. No problems with lines passing through.

I intend on using Snake Brand Universals, I don't think they make a large hoop tip top.

But I am also curious about this set-up described above by Randolph. Can't you just cast a normal 8wt line or a spey line rated for the rod?

Yes, you can cast a normal 8wt line, but it isn't going to work very well. I would refer you to the Spey Pages forum and if you send me an e-mail I will send you information on lines for switch and spey lines. rjruwe2@comcast.net.

Thanks again Randolph, but I don't need to delve into spey lines and have more distractions than I already do!

Thanks again Randolph, but I don't need to delve into spey lines and have more distractions than I already do!

It really depends upon how you intend to use the switch rod! Some use it only for nymph fishing in order to get the additional length for line mending. If that is the case, no need for any larger guide sizes then an 8wt would need.

If using it for Spey casting, guides just large enough to pass the knots or loops while stringing up and retrieving is all that's needed as the knots and loops are outside the guides when Spey casting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2013 10:31PM by Phil Erickson.

Well if your customer doesn't have the right set up for the rod, then there is no reason for him to have a custom rod made. The more information you can give him the more he is going to appreciate your knowledge and your care to see that he gets the best rod available and the best set up for him to enjoy your rod.

Info is good above.
BTW - a fly rod only has one stripping guide. The other two-footed guides are just that - two-footed guides.
Also - that rod is a Spey rod not a Switch rod.

Your rod has a regressive action. A proper switch rod is more progressive.
herb

we will end the confusion



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2013 04:21PM by Steve Wright.

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Info is good above.
> BTW - a fly rod only has one stripping guide. The
> other two-footed guides are just that - two-footed
> guides.
> Also - that rod is a Spey rod not a Switch rod.
>
> Your rod has a regressive action. A proper switch
> rod is more progressive.
> herb

Sorry for the misinformation...it is an 11' 8wt (400-600 grain) DC Switch rod. I changed the post title, sorry again.

As for the customer, he is a good friend of mine and I am not a professional. I've made 5 rods and thoroughly enjoy the process and want to make more. So when he told me that he was considering a switch rod for Great Lakes steelhead, I offered to build one for cost. He is brand new to steelheading so this rod will just be a beginner tool for him. I assume he will learn about different line rigs as he progresses into the fishing.

So I really appreciate the detailed info, I love fly rods and love learning as much as I can.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Read the original post!! He says it is an 11' 8 wt. Switch rod why do you declare it a Spey rod? He never said a word about it being 13". Any rod has only one stripping guide!! The rod is not at all comparable to a 10 or 11 wt. single handed rod. Where did that come from?

In his original post he said it was a 13' switch rod. Does not sound like either has much experience with spey or switch rods. A 13' deer creek is a spey rod, an 11' is a switch rod. I do know something aout them since I spend about three months in the fall chasing steelhead in the PNW. I actually have two deer creek spey rods.

As a switch rod the 8wt is still not rated like a single handed rod, it will be more like a 10wt single handed rod. Here are the line recommendations from TFO -
[www.templeforkflyrods.com]

There was a thread on Speypages a while back about which rod to use for the Great Lakes region. I remember looking at it, but did not pay that much attention since I don not fish there. I think that the 8wt might be over kill for most of the fishing there? Would depend on the size of fish and water. I am thinking the 6wt or 7wt would be plenty. My first spey rod was a deer creek 8/9 with Skagit heads 625-650 grains. It was overkill even on fish to 35-36" and I sold it. Much happier with a lighter rod. He most likely will start out with a Skagit or switch line with tips, so guides should be on the larger size to accommodate the loop to loop connections.

Each switch rod is rated differently and depends on the grain window that the rod is designed for.

Switch rods in most cases do require a heavier single handed line than the rating to properly load the rod for most casters. The grain window also helps select the correct Skagit or Scandi line to load the rod.

The TFO Deer Creek 11' 8 Wt Switch rod grain window is 400-600 grains. Pretty beefy for steelhead. An 8 Wt. line should be in the neighborhood of only 225 grains. The TFO site recommends a 12 Wt. single handed line for this rod, and Skagit and Scandi lines in the above grain window. A 12 Wt line is around 400 grains so the jives with the CCS info and the info on the TFO site.

As for your original question on guide size, I usually use #4 snakes as running guides, sometimes #3's but make sure there is adequate room for line and connecting knots with the #3.

Hope this all helps. The 2-handed rod line matching can be quite an adventure. The new line offerings for these rods are changing constantly. All the more reason to confirm with the manufacturer and with CCS measurements on what line match is best. I think the move to listing grain windows is a step in the right direction as you can pick the correct line a little easier. Not a full CCS process but an improvement.

Terry

Hi guys, I am really sorry for the confusion -- Randolph, I did make an error on the OP an listed the rod as 13' I didn't catch it until I read Steve's response about it being a Spey rod. So I went back and edited the OP. I apologize for creating conflict.

As for the rest of the comments, again, much appreciated. I'm not sure how my friend arrived at the 8wt, like I said he is pretty new to steelheading, but I think a guide on the PM recommended an 8wt. But maybe he was talking about a single hand 8, not sure.

All I know is I am going to build the rod and I appreciate the advice. I am going to call Mike at Snake, but I will probably go with something like 16-12-6-4-4-4-4.....