I continue to have problems with getting a good finish without having to go back and touch up spots again. At first I thought it was dirt or lint getting on the finish but after closer observation it is bubbles that won't go away with heat. I am using high build on heavy offshore rods, and have two different brands with same results. I clean my cups with DNA and the foil before use, I have a clean shop and no air movement, any suggestions would be appreciated.

You will have less troubles with a light finish Less bubbles Two coats IMHO

Bill - willierods.com

Try using one thin coat first followed by a second thicker coat within 24 hours. Use a good quality Sable brush. The cheap throw away brushes trap air between the bristles.

The heat may be causing your bubbles. If you apply too much, the finish will boil and micro bubbles are the result.

Move quickly, spending less than 30 to 40 seconds per guide when applying finish. This allows you to come back after all guides have been coated and with only the very slightest application of heat, remove any remaining bubbles.

You should also be looking at a mechanical mixer which will eliminate any bubbles in the original mix. That, and not brushing the finish around on the wraps, should eliminate most of the others.

.................

Ed,
I personally dislike the use of DNA on any thing where finish is going to be involved. I have personally have had too many issues with s spot of dna not being dry and then upsetting the finish.

I use only thick finish. I try to make a point to
a. first mix slowly for 120 seconds or more to insure a good mix.
b. Then, apply very quickly so that the entire rod is coated within two or three minutes of stopping the mix.
c. I also use a power wrapper to apply finish at speeds of 50-200 rpm.
d. I quickly apply finish using 5 cent throw away brushes, really not touching the rod at all. The brush is just used to transport the finish from the cup to the rod, and the spinning rod pulls the finish out of the brush without actually touching it.
With a power wrapper, it is easy to stop the rods turning at the guide feet to quickly fill the tunnels. Then resume the spin of the rod.
e. As soon as all of the guides have been coated, then I go back to the butt guide and use a heat gun to thin the finish, let the finish flow and insure that all bubbles are gone from the finish.


Slow the rod down for for overnight drying, or transfer the rod to a dryer.

Let dry and you will be good to go.

Be safe

Good chance the DNA is the problem. It isn't as pure as you might think.

Here is what I do. Wash the blank with soap and water before wrapping and dry well. Keep my fingers off the thread as much as possible. Some wear gloves. I often use a thread bobbin. Use a new mixing cup each time as they are cheap. Measure with syringes to be accurate. Mix for three minutes. Pour it out on large saucer covered with new aluminum foil. Tilt saucer around to make epoxy as thin as possible and blow on it with a straw.

If I have underwraps I coat them first, let dry a day or two and then wrap the guides on. I like a lite build finish and two coats (three coats if heavy rod with double wraps on guides). The first coat is heavy enough to cover the threads but little more. I start at the tip and work towards the butt. I use a good quality brush as wide as I can. I load the brush, let only the finish touch the wrap, and give it one quick spin by hand. Repeat as needed to cover wrap. Once all guides are done I turn by hand a few times, letting the finish intentionally sag a little to saturate threads/fill in the guide tunnels/etc. Then i wick off the extra so there is little to no sag but still complete coverage. I hand turn a few more times blowing bubbles out with straw. My climate is hot so I rarely torch the finish. You may need to.

Then I put it in the dryer to rotate for several hours. The next day I cut any nubs,fix any problems, then re-coat. On rods with single foot guides I might do this at high RPM's. Otherwise I do it under hand power.

You mention a "clean" shop. Make sure none of your cleaning products are to blame. One application of furniture polish can cause problems for a long time. Also on heavy rods you can have a lot of thread work. A thin "primer" coat to seal, one which allows the entrained air to escape easily, might help a lot. Some use CP for that purpose. Some thin finish with acetone. I wouldn't be trying to get away with one coat (applied all at once) on a heavy offshore rod with underwraps and double overwraps.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

It is constantly said here do not was anything with a solvent DNA Alcohol whatever before finishing
I think Russ nailed it
Also like said keep all waxes polishes WELL AWAY from where you finish Open a can of car wax and it can fly though the air and onto the rod Check whatever you use to clean the shop it can be anything

Bill - willierods.com

Ed,
For inexpensive cups, I just go to the grocery store and pick up 500 cups of the right size for a few $$.
I never reuse a cup. I never clean a cup.
I never reuse a brush, I use a new 5 cent brush every time. I just go to the craft shop or wall mart and pick up a 100 brushes in the childrens section for 2 or 3 $. They work very well for applying finish. Really very similar to the brushes that flex coat supplies in their coating kits.

If a wrap has dust on it, I just use blue low tack masking tape to tack off the wraps to insure that they are free of dust.

No need for a high quality brush to apply finish. Normally a brush never touches the guide or blank. You just need a carrier to hold the finish from the cup to the rod, so that you can wick the finish off the end of the brush as the rod spins.

Be safe

If you're getting micro bubbles, Tom is most likely right...the torch is VERY suspect.

I've not put a torch to epoxy in years, but I'd guess it "boils" in a half second or less. Seriously. Anything more than a quick pass and you're forming micro bubbles within the epoxy. They never go away.

So my question is this...why are you torching? If you are trying to fix issues in the high build, try switching to low build. A light finish is usually thin enough to saturate & penetrate your threads and it tends to release bubbles well. If you're afraid of having to apply multiple layers of finish, follow the light build with a high build. I typically just use light build on everything I do...and that includes unlimited class (180#) trolling rods. The same finish does it all for me...from 6# trout rods to the unlimited class.

I appreciate all the advice, I typically brush the finish on , if I just let it come off as the rod spins I think the finish would start to set before I'm done, these rods are typically 7'0" and a beefy diameter . I've tried lite, heavy ,sable brush, throw away brush, no difference, I'm frustrated

Whoa, perhaps too much pressure on the brush while applying the epoxy, just tried just letting it flow onto the blank as best I could and had NO Bubbles

Ed, Your giving it too much thpught! I have never wiped or cleaned anything I put finish on or mixed in. I use all brands of epoxy and mix and apply the same way. Most important is a equal 1:1 mixture. I mix using( pixie stix) drink sterrers that you can pick up wherever barware is sold. After mixing for about a minute let it sit for another minute and then apply with whatever it takes to get it on the rod, (your fimger, popcicle stick, or a brush that you favor) but, lay it on heavy and move it around so that all the threads or the area is evenly coated.If it sags, move it or remove it. If it bubbles, use your breath to pop em'. I only use heat when the area is cold. I store all my thread in Zip-Loc bags by color in closed boxes (cardboard). Some older (vintage) colors give me problems at times but they are tested before use.
NOTE: If you use any type of foil adheseve (as was done years ago) to create a base for underwraps, sometimes air will get trapped under the foil and if the epoxy has a way to get to it, this wil cause bubbles.
Try a simpler method to apply your epoxy and see what happens!

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

There might possibly be something in here that could help. Maybe.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

............

As far as anyone saying that cheap throw away brushes are the way to go, My top quality sable brushes have been in use for more that 35 years and are still as good as the day I bought them. They are well worth the money and allow much more accurate application of the finish. Tell me that when applying a finish like Perma Gloss or Lumiseal that the brush does not touch the wrap, or for than matter when applying a thin first coat of epoxy. It can't happen!!

As far as anyone saying that cheap throw away brushes are the way to go, My top quality sable brushes have been in use for more that 35 years and are still as good as the day I bought them. They are well worth the money and allow much more accurate application of the finish. Tell me that when applying a finish like Perma Gloss or Lumiseal that the brush does not touch the wrap, or for than matter when applying a thin first coat of epoxy. It can't happen!!

What a person finds that works well for them is, well, what works for them.

I break most of the "rules" laid out in this thread...with no adverse affects. Works for me...and that is what matters to "me". LoL

And yes...I use cheap (as cheap as I can find) brushes...I paint the finish on...I press the brush down on the wrap...I don't give a rip what anyone else thinks about it because it ends up looking like this [www.rodbuilding.org]

and this [www.rodbuilding.org]

and this [www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2013 05:35PM by Jay Lancaster.

Good for you Jay, and I mean that!! Everyone should find what works for them, there is never only one way!!!

when you frist start out , there will be all kinds of problems , as you get more experance you will find out where you can cut some corrners an get away with it , but frist starting out go by the book then change to make it as easy as you can , there are a lot of people that don't use a brush at all , they use spatchlers to apply , go the cheep brush frist then change if you want , use a new cheep brush the few times , then change or as they say experment other way's to improve your operation
my 2 cts SID ,

William Sidney
AK

You say you have used the same sable brushes for 35 years. How do you clean them and store them?

Cleaned with brush cleaner or acetone, air dried, then wraped in wax paper and kept in a Tupper ware container for storage.