Question for you all. I'm about to build my first rod with micro guides. I'm building a 8ft Batson heavy action rod. I'm looking for suggestions on spacing. Is it just a matter of trial and error? Since I've never built a rod with micro guides any and all advice is welcome.
Thanks

Is this going to be a spinning or conventional rod and reel set up?

Hi John,

I am in the middle of doing my first micro build also. You should be able to get the guide spacing recommended by Batson for that particular blank from their website? However with that said I had to add 1 extra guide and reposition all of them as to not nave my line touch the blank!

This is a casting rod. I feel like a giant when holding these. I see the standard guide settings but I don't think they fly with these small guides. I ordered extra guides to be flexible. How many different sizes are you all using?

John,
I would put as many as 3 or 4 extra guides on a rod when using micros. But that is entirely up to you.

I simply prefer not to have the line touch the rod.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2013 07:53PM by roger wilson.

John,

You could use a standard spacing chart, and as long as there are enough guides to adequately distribute the load, it will work just fine. The line path just won't be too aesthetically pleasing. A few extra guides can be added to a micro set up and still have the guide train come in noticeably lighter than a traditional guide train. Read the article in the Library above about static testing carefully a couple times, and you will be well on your way to setting up casting rods.

The way I like to do it, I start with a load equal to the heaviest fish I intend to flop in the boat with the rod, for a bass rod, that is typically about a pound and a half. I tie that weight to the tip top mounted on the rod. This will allow the rod to carry the load naturally. Next I run the line through the guides I plan to use (without being taped in place), along with a few extra, through the tip top and tie on a light lead weight to apply some tension. I start at the tip. With the rod loaded, I place the first guide, typically 3.5"-4.5" from the tip top, and work my way toward the reel, allowing the line to touch the line between each pair of guides, but not pass below. On most rods, (offshore rods for large fast running fish, the exception) the line won't be moving much, if at all, when in contact with the blank.

As far as sizing, if you do not have any clearance issues with a fore grip, the butt guide doesn't need to be larger than the guide in your level wind mechanism. When working with small butt guides, it's best to push them out a little further than than traditional spacings, with the butt guide in the neighborhood of 23"-28". If you want to use a traditional 10mm butt guide, look at the Fuji KR Concept for casting rods on the Angler's Resource site. It will provide some good information.

If line touch bothers you, consider a spiral wrap. There are many ways to skin that cat, but my personal preference is to use a slow spiral, using a double foot 6, single foot 5, single foot 4, and either single foot 4s or 3s from there. It typically takes me 4 guides to get to the bottom of the rod, and there will be a bit of side loading under heavy load, but the layout works well for the bass and panfish rods I build. I use the static test mentioned above for spacing.

The bottom line is that if you use enough guides to distribute the load, most casting rods will perform pretty well. Over the years I've used 6'6" factory rods with 5 guides, and I have a 6'6" crankbait rod with all 3mm guides on top that has something like 11 guides, because it flexes so deeply into the blank. For an 8' heavy power blank, I would expect about 10 micro guides, but don't be surprised if you can get by with 9, or have to use 11 or 12. The number used will depend a bit on the size and design of the guides. The Batson, Alps, Kigan Z, and Fuji K guides sit farther from the blank, and will likely have you using one or two guides fewer in a static test. Guides like the Pac Bay Minima, Fuji fly frame micros, and Kigan fly frame micros sit very low to the blank, and my use an extra guide or two in the static test. There are pros and cons to each guide design (all that I'e used work well), but the options allow you to choose the one that suits your needs best.

Edit: One last thing. If you are using mono 14lb+, use a 6mm tip top. While a nonissue for the other guides, as the line leaves the tip top and turns toward the water, it can pinch in the micro tops. With a really limp line, like a light mono or braid, the 4mm tip tops work well.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2013 10:13PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Why do you wish to use such light weight guides on a heavy action rod blank? Doesn't make any sense to me.

John;
Joe's advised is really solid. What is the model of the Batson blank you are using. I might be able to suggest a guide train that will get you pretty close. I would suggest a spiral wrap as well.

Randolph;
On bassrods; I only use micro guides on blanks that heavy. Only makes sense that the heavier he blank, the easier it is on the user to lighten things up as much as possible, and micro guides are an effective way to do such.

Thanks Joe. That's more insight then I've gotten in a long time. I'll be running braid on this rod. I do want to keep the line from touching the blank. I did buy some Batson guides, 13 of them (4mm)so I should be good.

Steve its a CB80H. Got a great price on it. It will be the largest rod in my arsenal. I live on a large lake in TN and will be throwing some deep cranks as well as pitching/flipping a bit.im going to have fun with this rod when its done. I'm also building my first fly rod...my friends say that fly fishing is like crack for anglers. So who knows I may only see limited action with this big rod. But it will be fun!

John,
If you provide me with the distance from tip to reel and the number of guides you wish I can give some starting distances.


Gene

Why not do a Spiral Wrap ?? With guides at the 180 there should be less guides No worry about tip flex

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2013 05:55PM by bill boettcher.

Bill,
I have asked the same question.
But I will agree that with several of the folks for whom I wrap. i.e. there are several applications where they just simply prefer a conventional wrapped rod, with no line wrapping around the rod.

I have fished those applications with both a conventional as well as a spiral wrapped rod and agreee completely - that for many fishing applications; the spiral wrap is simply not the way to go.

Be safe

Bill
I will one day do a spiral wrap but not now. I've never really thought about it. My skills are still developing. I have sold few rods but mostly too friends. I'll post a pick of my mag bass rod one day. I'll want some feedback when I do.

Eugene
I'll send measurements when I get home. I'm traveling with work in Memphis and actually found myself by the Strike King corporate office today. I had no idea they were here in TN.

John, there are many builders who disagree that the only consideration on guide sizing is the level wind eye diameter. I suggest you watch the video on the Fuji Anglers Resource web site and look at the recent postings from Darren Hein of Amtak on Microwave casting guides. Whether you choose to use either sources' guides is up to you, but what should come across is that there is more to the first guide or two on a casting rod than the size of the level wind eye. There is another post by a builder who did a lot of experimenting on three casting setups that should convince of this as well. For many years some builders of micro casting setups have advocated slightly larger first and second guides.

Since you are using micros, I expect the torque induced from the guides being above the rod blank will be indistinguishable whether you build spiral or not. Other than that torque issue (which to me in actual fishing means absolutely nothing) and keeping the guides off the blank, I don't think there is an advantage in spiral. IMHO they look goofy, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can keep the line off the blank by using more guides as others have mentioned.

Since this is your first micro build I'll mention that if you want knots to pass through the guides you need to select sizes very carefully.

Fuji has a special micro guide that is a sort of heavy duty micro (KB, I think it is) intended for the areas of a blank that are most heavily loaded. Maybe there are others as well, but the point is that with a heavy action rod you may want to research this issue to convince yourself you are not overloading the micros. I have never had a micro fail, but I haven't used them on a heavy power rod.