I would like to start by thanking everyone who responded to the last thread as it was greatly appreciated.
I ended up using tamiya r/c polycarbonate paint on the blank I painted. I then used spraymax 2k clear over that three coats a half hour apart. I followed all the directions on spraymax can to the letter. The blank has now sat for 36 hours at 64-68 degrees.
Problem- it isn't hard. Now exactly what I mean by that is I can take my thumb nail and push into clear coat slightly and it leaves a mark. I was taught that with 2 part epoxy if you can push your nail into it after two days (at 70 degrees) it is not cured well and needs to be coated again. That being said I am under the impression that a urethane should be much harder than an epoxy.
The question- if this does not fully cure or get hard can I apply lumaseal or permagloss or it? Will it strip everything off or will the urenthane protect the paint from the heat of permagloss or lumaseal? I have read about people using "sacrificial" clear coats that protect paint from heat of pg and ls. Any info a real big help here!! As always thanks for taking time out to respond.

Don't know that paint
You can try letting it sit in a warm place for another day or two ???

I paint miy blanks with DupliColor Auto color in cans Then either permagloss or a spray KlassKote Urethain Clear letting the paint dry 3 - 4 days

Bill - willierods.com

Forget the stuff about the epoxy needing another coat if you can push your thumbnail into it 2 days after application. That's bunk.

How quickly an epoxy sets and cures has to do with many factors, including what it was formulated to do and the temperature where it is applied and left to cure. It is possible the epoxy ytou used wasn't designed to cure rock hard. Not to mention, but 36 hours at under 70F isn't enough time for most epoxies to fully cure. Generally at that temperature you'd be talking a week, or longer.

Yes, most urethanes will cure harder than an epoxy but few are as user friendly. Give your stuff a week and try your thumbnail test again. Even then, how often do you expect to have someone push their thumbnail into it? If it's not tacky and doesn't dull from handling, you're likely worrying over something that isn't going to make any difference to begin with.

...............

Really and the permagloss doesn't strip the paint off.. That's awesome gotta try that. How long do you allow paint to dry before permagloss application?
Tom thank you for talking me off the ledge! It seemed strange that the two part epoxy finishes that a lot of people rave about like aftcote and prokote could never pass the thumb nail test. I have been debunked!

I thought the clear he used was a 2 K Which drys in a quick time i have used auto clears and KlassKote and they have dried rock hard generally over night

Bill - willierods.com

WOW.............that is a lot of weight you have already added to the blank, hope it is not a light one. I suggest you test the PG application on an obscure portion of the blank before applying overall.

Spraymax sells a fast cure can of 2k and a regular or slow cure. This was the standard slow cure. Web info says it dries in half an hour but doesn't say anything about cure time.

This is a large saltwater rod so the weight isn't that noticable. Actually I really can't tell the difference from before.

Some paints take up to a week to fully cure. Give it a couple more days, you are probably going to be fine.

Hang in there.

Terry

Terry Turner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some paints take up to a week to fully cure. Give
> it a couple more days, you are probably going to
> be fine.
>
> Hang in there.
>
> Terry

Ive sprayed a a lot of 2k clear over the years... I wouldnt consider it cured until at least a full week. Granted you should be able to handle and work with it prior, I just wouldnt worry until a full week.

For those of you that have sprayed Klasskote i have a question. Is the clear a spray or are you brushing it on like PG

I have sprayed it
Am thinking of trying to brush or wipe it on Should work I can not see why not They also have a Reducer in Slow-medium and fast dry that works well to thin if you want Not as fast as permagloss and not as hot

Bill - willierods.com

It has been about 4 days since the clear was sprayed and it has gotten noticabily harder. While I feel this will work out ok on the future I think I will get a spray gun. Any suggestions on that would help Home Depot has a kit for like 80 bucks with regulator and cleaning kit. I may try that. If anyone knows of an affordable gravity gun that would be good for base and clear please let me know. Trying to keep the price low I would have to get compressor also.

mike langevin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has been about 4 days since the clear was
> sprayed and it has gotten noticabily harder. While
> I feel this will work out ok on the future I think
> I will get a spray gun. Any suggestions on that
> would help Home Depot has a kit for like 80 bucks
> with regulator and cleaning kit. I may try that.
> If anyone knows of an affordable gravity gun that
> would be good for base and clear please let me
> know. Trying to keep the price low I would have to
> get compressor also.

Harbor freight is your friend. Im definitely not a big supporter of HF as I am a bit of a tool snob... However there are just some things you cant beat getting from them if you do not use them in a production / professional facility. In this case I would highly suggest you pick up one of their small detail / touch up guns and a smaller Compressor... All can be found there.

now dont get me wrong I would never pick up a gun there to paint an actual car... or the equipment from them to do so..... but for this purpose you cant beat the stuff or the price.

Thanks! I had looked at some harbor freight stuff but I was nervous cause it looked to cheap to be good.

Try a Google search on Air Brush Compressors

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try a Google search on Air Brush Compressors


Do you think an airbrush compressor would run one of the small detail guns ????? curious as I would like to set up a back room for painting and dont want to plumb pipe from my big comp.

I don't think you need a touch up gun
I have sprayed clear with one of these Low air and the material has to be thin

[images.search.yahoo.com]

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think you need a touch up gun
> I have sprayed clear with one of these Low air and
> the material has to be thin
>
> [images.search.yahoo.com]
> prop=image&fr=yff50-sfp&va=preval+spray+gun


Yeah but you gotta keep buying those canisters... I think if I were doing several I would just go the compressor route... Thats just me though.. Im always looking for a reason to buy a new tool.

Well,

This will be a follow up from a earlier post on the question about if you could spray Perma Gloss with success and have the desired results a builder would be looking for in their finish. I have decided to share this with everyone here on rodbuilding.org. To all of you who are searching for a way to get a finish that would be in comparison to our mass producing counterparts, and for those who are seeking a way to do cosmetic quick and easy repair on the bench. We all have our way of doing things and shares are procedures here on this site. The procedure I am posting here is a outline on how to prep, mix, and apply a finish to a blank using a minimum amount of tools and product to achieve a finish or a cosmetic repair that would be comparable to (OEM). If there are any questions please feel free to ask. Please feel free to brainstorm on this as well, as it does open up other aspects of cosmetic repair ideas that I have already put to use and have been very successful at. With this alone you will have no need for sending that blank to a painter or trying to match a color or just laying down a coat of clear to clean up some cosmetic blemishes. Ordering those high end painted blanks isn't even a consideration for me at this time. That's what I believe I have changed in developing this process application method.

Spray Finish Application
for U-40 Perma Gloss

I will try to keep this simple and to the point. Like in all things we do there is always room for trial and error. Tool and supply’s you will need on hand. You will need an Air Brush preferably one you will use just for this application alone, one small air compressor, one that will deliver enough air pressure 1/5 hp. The Air brush has to have a jar reservoir. Keep in mind this is sticky stuff and you will have to clean the gun immediately after finishing your job. I will get into that later on in this write up.

You will need to get some Mineral spirits 100% (use the ACE brand or equivalent) it will say on the bottle: Thins oil based paints, varnishes, stains and Polyurethanes. (This is important because there are other brands and I have tried them and there to hot! In my experience with mixing paints you have to find the correct base to thin for the job and this was what I came up with. If it’s too hot it will change the pot life and flash times to erratic results. This brand is stable in the gun and on the blank)
Perma Gloss is your next item, I purchase it in the 4oz bottles and stick them in the fridge as soon as I get them (you all know the pot life on this stuff) keep a lid on it. Just before mixing take your bottle out and bring it to room temp. (Put a lamp on it to help it out) never remove lid until you’re ready to pour and mix.

Now that you have these items and you feel confident about you’re Tools I want to just go over a few things on prep before I go into the mixing application. Prep is about 90% of what your finish will look like, spraying it on is the easy part. Like an automotive painter they are meticulous about dust and contaminants’ make sure your prep work is spot on. I use alcohol 90% to degrease my blanks and I get it wet and I wipe till I am satisfied. I am wearing surgical gloves as well through this procedure. Of course you did scuff this blank prior to degreasing, I use scotchbrite green for this and with light pressure by hand scuff the entire blank (if you are getting a load of black your scuffing to hard) lightly scuff with very little black on your scotch pad. I think you all get the picture here now.

You’re blank is prepped and now you’re going to need to make sure your contaminant free with your jars, Air-Brush and the area your shooting in. Fill jar with some alcohol and shoot some through and check to make sure your brush is working properly adjust as needed to get the gun working properly. Make sure your jars are clean for mixing. I have prep wipes ready for this and for accidents.
Now for mixing, I use the little plastic cups we all bye at our convenient rod building supply outlets. They work well for what we are doing here and you will not be mixing very much. In fact one Jar will do a full blank 7’. I use the little plastic sticks to stir the mix. Have several on hand as to not contaminate your mix.
Pour your PG first it should be to room temp by now and ready 20mL into the cup. This is enough to fill the jar about ¾ of the way into your Airbrush jar (don't over fill the jar) this will result in spraying malfunction.
Now add your Mineral Spirits to your PG, I use a pipit for this and have some already poured into a plastic cup. You should use 0.3mL to 20ML of PG this will give it the consistency to shoot it through you Airbrush. Mix it in with the PG for good 2 min and make sure you see no separation between your mixes. Once you have mixed it and your sure it’s together your ready to pour it into the jar. Now depending on humidity and temperature this might vary but not too much if you feel you need more, test it through your Airbrush and see if you’re getting good atomization from the tip. If not add 0.1mL of Mineral Spirits to get the correct viscosity. You should be good with what I have come up with in normal conditions.

You’re ready to shoot! You will have a 1.45 hour pot life on what is in the jar (spray time) It will take you about 25min to shoot the entire blank and possibly empty the jar. Flash time between coats is 15 min not very long. So if you’re going to do a second coat, be ready to mix another batch which is very simple to do!

Clean up is not very hard I don’t use acetone unless I got very lazy and didn't run some alcohol through the Airbrush. I use alcohol to clean the gun and I do take it apart to clean after a shoot. The price we pay for using the sticky stuff. Like anything we do practice safe handling of those chemicals we use. If there is any other questions or problems you run into please feel free to let me know I will try to give you my best knowledge on it!
Now this is new for updating my procedure. The pigments I have tested and used for over a year now are Mudhole CRB Marbling pigment kit! With this you can produce just about any color you want for a blank! This you will mix into the plastic cup as you’re making up you mix for painting, just add enough to make the color desired. (Warning) The less you use the more Opaque your color will be on the blank. It become more transparent. So You have to know something about colors here folks its not just mix it and shoot it. Think about the color of the blank your shooting or even if its just straight graphite

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

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