I fished Seneca Lake in New York yesterday for perch with a Microwave setup that I built specifically for this fishery. It works as advertised...long casts and line control...and I love the product. However, while it casts great above freezing, when the temperature dipped to 23F yesterday morning I found that the inside ring of the microwave guide actually froze! I've never seen ice form on guides this far down the rod, and not all of the intervening guides were iced, so I wonder if the ice was forming DURING the cast?? I was using nanofil, which retains a little water (though it wasn't freezing on the reel). Very odd situation that persisted until the temp got up a bit higher. Obviously, the casting was impaired, as if you'd iced your stripping or reduction guide. Since I think that it was happening during the cast, there wasn't really any way to just remove the ice such as I'd do between casts on the running guides.

Anybody else have this experience? I'm a fan of the Microwaves, wish that they'd just sell the top two guides rather than the whole set, of course...but I'm not sure they're suitable for sub-freezing conditions.

Keith,

Really nothing wrong with the microwave guide system on the rod. Simply put, too small guides and the use of braided line when used in sub freezing conditions cause guides to ice up.

Did you do yourself a favor, and strip off the nonofil line, when you found the freezing conditions, and replaced it with 4 lb mono?

If you had, I suspect that much of your problem would have gone away.

We fish quite a bit in sub freezing conditions here in the upper Midwest. But anytime that the temperature is below freezing temperature, we always remove any braided line and replace it with mono line.

As you have said, with the moisture retention of any of the braided lines, casting and sub freezing lines simply don't work well together.

I suspect that in addition to having some of your guides freeze shut, that you were also getting a considerable amount of the line freezing together on the spool.

Also, any time that we are going to be fishing in sub freezing conditions, we always select rods that have the smallest guide and tip at a size 8.

A very big difference in guides freezing shut when you compare a size 8 tip and running guide to a size 3, 4,5, or 6.


The Microwave setup is a wonderful setup. It is just not wonderful in freezing conditions with small running guides and braided line.

By the way, I am just building a batch of 20 ice rods or so for a walleye fishing club from Canada. They always fish out of doors, even in -20F or -30F conditions. For these rods, the client has requested that No guide or tip be any smaller than a size 10.
Just too many guide freezing issues if one goes smaller than that, when fishing in such extreme conditions.
Also, he does not want any fly style guides, nor a tip that is close to the rod tip. When the rod freezes up, he wants to be able to beat it against the ice and to be able to knock all of the ice out of the guides and off the rod. So, no fragile guides on these rods either.



Good luck
Roger



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 11:07AM by roger wilson.

Rather than beating your tackle against solid objects you could just dip the tip-top into the water to melt the ice. I've found this to work in most conditions. I don't know if using mono reduces icing tip tops and guides but I do know using mono will not prevent icing up.

Phil,
When you are fishing in -40F temperatures, it really doesn't work very well to try to melt the ice in a reasonable amount of time.

And of course, I am not about to tell anyone of my clients how to use their rod, or how to fish. It they want a sturdier rod, with sturdier guides, I will happily build it for them.

By the way, when I was ice fishing and had some tip or guide freezing, I would just put the tip or guide into my mouth to melt off the ice. That would actually work much quicker than putting the tip in 30 degree water.


Roger

have you tried to spray the guides with some thing like Maybe Pam

Bill - willierods.com

Fishing in the open air in -40 temperature? Wow. How long before a hole ices over, even if the water remains liquid at 30 degrees? I suggest devising a combination spud/ large diameter-tip top for the end of the rod.

Phil,
That is certainly a hardy group that fish like that. They are very very successful fishermen that work hard, and fish very hard and catch lots of very big fish in these frigid temperatures.

Roger

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. The issue isn't just the line freezing...we frequently fish in cold weather and we're used to dealing with it. The issue is that the microwave guide itself is freezing. Usually, when guides ice up, it's at the business end of the rod. I've never seen a guide freeze completely closed near the stripper. But I've never seen a guide like the microwave, either. Maybe mono would help. Moving to a larger running guide certainly would not, though; that only helps the running guides themselves not to freeze. I know, I've experimented with about 10 different setups for this application now. The reason I posted this is simply that I was surprised. In retrospect, I shouldn't have been. Small openings freeze quickly.

BTW, this isn't a bash, I love the Microwave guides. Similar characteristics as a well laid out K-Concept, but with little to no thought required.

Just a thought...I wonder if the line and the air the line's "carrying" thru the Microwave stripper doesn't lower the pressure, and therefore temperature, inside the "cone" as it flows thru??? In the same manner airflow thru a venturi loses pressure and temp. This could explain why the Microwave is more prone to icing than other running guides of similar or even smaller diameters. Like I said...just a thought.

Jon

Jon,
My guess is that a better example would be candle making.
Basically, the post is about using braided line, microwave guides in subfreezing weather.
The thing that happens with braided line, is that every time that it is reeled up, the line contains water droplets.
Then, as the line is reeled in - time after time, the water droplets are going to be scraped off the line at the microwave guide. The microwave guide would be the transition point where the line would most likely be rubbing against a guide during retrieve.
Since there are multiple guides close together at the microwave guide, the water droplets are going to be falling off the line and onto the microwave series of guides. Now, with subfreezing temperatures, you are going to be making an ice candle.
i.e. every time that the line is rubbed across the microwave guide and a few water droplets are rubbed off, the water droplets are going to be laying on top of the previous water droplets. The layer will begin to get thicker and thicker until finally the ultimate water candle is formed by having the guide freeze completely shut.

Pretty straight forward event. I have seen it happen many many times when open water ice fishing on the tip of the rod, since the tip sees all of the action on the typical ice rod. i.e. the water gets wiped off the line at the tip on the typical ice rod and begins to ice up the rod tip. This continues until the tip finally freezes completely shut.

In the case of open water fishing with the classic lift drop retrieve of an open water fishing line, the tip does not take the brunt of the rubbing action, but rather the first guide before the reel, or in this case the microwave guide.

But, it is exactly the same principle - i.e candle forming - using water to form an ice candle on the microwave guide.

Be safe
REW