When using the Shimona 1000, the GPS software suggest placing my first striper guide (20mm) 12.17” from the spool shaft end. This seems really close to me from reading some of the literature on Anglers Resource’s web page. On their website they're recommending the first guide in the 19-21” range. If I follow that then I’m using a 10mm (19.13") striper guide followed by KLH5.5 at 24.29”. The 10mm guide seems too small for the first guide in the guide reduction train.

I hope someone can help me out with what I should be doing.

By the way I want to build a 7’ ultra-light for panfish. Also if you have any thoughts on the reel size for a rod this long I would also like to hear them as well.

Thanks

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

I'll let those more expert than I comment on the spacing, but on the ultra-light, why not try a the fastest action 3 wt fly blank and build as a spinner. I did, and love it. I have a 500 size reel on it.

Thanks Michael for your comments. I don't really know much about fly rods and so your comments are worth reading. Can you tell me how to interrupt the action or does each company have their own nomenclature?

Chester: On a rod this light with a small reel (which is the right size by the way) you may end up with a two guide reduction train. Try the 12 as your stripper and then put the 5.5 at 24-25 followed by the choke guide. I often end up with two guides in the reduction train using smaller reels when the "Rapid Choke" concept is used. If your using light braid you should have no trouble at all and end up with a very responsive, lightweight set up.

I personally have had no success with the Fuji GPS software. But, I love the KLH guides. I would stick w/ the 27x method. Set your choke guide and line it up as usual.

The concept behind the KL-H guides is to offer enough height on a small ring to be able to step down in ring size and save weight in the reduction train. Channeling line through smaller rings early gains more control over line flow and allows the line to be fully choked sooner. This "Rapid Choke" compresses the reduction train with no loss in performance and concentrates the weight of the reduction train in the lower part of the blank. With a shorter reduction train, lightweight runners cover a longer distance and the rod exhibits a lighter more responsive feel in the top 2/3 where it matters most. 27X may work beautifully with KL-H guides, and it has certainly proven itself over the years, but in this particular case it defeats the purpose of the concept by spreading the reducers over a much longer distance to the 27X choke point. KR Concept offers the fastest method of line control because the choke point is closer to the reel. Some will insist that the Microwave does all the choking through a single guide, but if that's the case why is the choke point 39 inches out the rod? A Microwave reduction train spans 20 inches from stripper to choke guide. The same KR reduction train usually spans 14 to 16 inches and in some cases as short as 11 or 12 inches. This difference is huge in the upper portions of the rod with KR being as much as 50% lighter in the top 2/3. The Microwave Kit is fantastic compared to the Cone of Flight from 30 years ago, but the fact remains that compared to recent advances like the KR CONCEPT it's not quite so earthshaking and, in fact, takes a backseat in some fairly critical aspects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2013 11:02AM by Jim Ising.

Jim, reading this late.

You mean you use a size 12 for your first butt guide? Wow, that is small. May I ask what size reel and line test and type of line you use for these?

I trired a size 12 once with 2 lbs and size 1000 and felt that it reduced casing distance. however, I did not do enough test to know for sure. Love to have your data point. At the smallest, I would have guessed sized 16 but to be able to use size 12 would be nice in reducing the weight further.

Mo

Jim, reading this late.

You mean you use a size 12 for your first butt guide? Wow, that is small. May I ask what size reel and line test and type of line you use for these?

I trired a size 12 once with 2 lbs and size 1000 and felt that it reduced casing distance. however, I did not do enough test to know for sure. Love to have your data point. At the smallest, I would have guessed sized 16 but to be able to use size 12 would be nice in reducing the weight further.

Mo

Mo,
Just looked at a Shockwave Rod built on a XSB 842 blank in the Batson rod rack at Lamiglas last weekend, the guides looked like a VS3 12mm, VS3 6mm, than 2.5 or 2 mm guides to the tip with a 2500 reel installed.

Spencer, I wonder if that Shockwave Rod was designed for braid specifically. 12mm would work fine with braid but not sure about something like 10 lbs fluoro ro mono....

Mo

KR CONCEPT is a braid formula according to FUJI but it was tested and developed using mono and fluorocarbon. Use any method you want to determine where your guides should be positioned (GPS, Table Edge, 27X) and you will see "groups" emerge in your results. Maybe a 25, 16, 12, maybe a 20 12, 8...it becomes obvious if you study where they are positioned. For mono choose a larger ring, for braid you can go much smaller. If your positioning method is telling you a 12 goes at 20 inches...put it there. Worry less about ring size and more about guide height. If you're shooting for a KR CONCEPT with a "Rapid Choke", go to www.anglersresource. net and read the "Building the KR CONCEPT Rod" blog for a detailed description of how to take advantage of the Rapid Choke concept.

Chester, regarding interpretation of blank makers' specs, and building a fly blank into a spinning blank, the fastest action fly blank, regardless of maker, will be slower than a "spinning" blank. So if you want the tradiitonal soft tip/stiffer butt UL stick with a spinning blank. If you're looking to cast very small crankbaits to specs and bluegills the fly blank, the fastest one you can find, will work great. Casts very well and comfortably, soft on the fish's lips, and surprisingly to some, hook sets are not a problem with the length which is longer than most traditional UL's. I have two, a 6 wt and a 3 wt, the 3 being my panfish rod (but I've taken much larger fish on it), an AMTAC AMF763 at 7 1/2 feet. The AMF803 is said to be a little faster, so if you want the extra length it might be a good one to try.

Mo: It's about the height of the guide so if you're having problems with performance it's most likely because you are trying to put a shorter smaller ring where a higher frame needs to be. tape a 12 at 24, 25, 26 inches and test. If you can get out that far without much slap you've accomplished your goal of lightening the guide train while not losing any performance. Caveat would be a light action that bends into the butt, you'll need to pay attention to placement in that regard but overall you may be surprised.

Thanks Jim. I have the guides and will check them out when I get back. Thanks for the response. I would love to have size 12s work instead of 16 or 20. Not sure if they are tall enough. I reworked some of your TATSGs and converted others to a microwave type to test, but never did think to start with size 12.

Mo

Mo, I am referring to the high frame KL-H guide just to make myself clear. The frame is high enough that at size 12 with a 1000 series reel (and many 2000 series as well) should work fine as a stripper. Some are using eights!

Yes, I understood that to mean the KL-H.

Thanks,
Mo

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. I know they have been a great help to me and it sounds like others may have learned a few things as well. I will definitely be posting again if I have any questions and will most definitely be reading others topics as they come up.

Yes, this is one of the finest enthusiast forum of any kind on the web. Kudos to Tom Kirkman and all who populate these pages.

Mo

I received my rod build on Saturday installed the handle and temporarily attached the guides per GPS and made my first test cast with it today. This is truly amazing. The line just flew out of the guides with ease. My wife couldn't believe how easy it looked to get such a long cast. It was a little challenging to handle the small guides, but once I master using the stretchy thread it went quite well.

I want to thank everyone for chiming in on my topic and helping out. I know I will be making more of these in the future.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

Sic 'em Chester.