Greetings all
I have been lurking for a couple months now in anticipation of building my first rod in a number of years. The time has come, and inevitably I need some advice. So I figured I would turn to the experts.
I am building a steelhead float rod for the Pacific Northwest. I've chosen an 11'8" 4-8lb 1/16-3/8oz light action IM6 blank. My reel measurements for GPS (with reel mounted in reel seat) are A-91mm B-85mm C-113.5mm, and spool diameter of just under 43mm.
I entered all info into GPS and placed my guides accordingly starting with a KL20H at 24.5", a KL12H at 35" and a KT10 at 44". I used the general rule of 1/2 spool diameter to get 1st reduction guide size. I got everything taped up & proceeded with test casting using 17lb braid & 1/4oz weight.
I've noticed I'm getting some vibration & noise when casting & distance doesn't seem what I expected. For comparison I put the same casting setup on my 9'6" 3/8-3/4oz off the shelf rod I've been using. It has a size 25 guide at 28", a 16 at 41" and a 12 at 52". The 9'6" rod makes a little more noise & vibration but to my surprise casting distance is almost identical. I've moved the reduction train around a little for experimenting but have gotten the same results. Since I'm building this rod to reach fishy looking spots on large rivers and I don't own a boat, casting distance is a priority.
So from this long winded explanation does it appear I've placed guides wrong or perhaps that I need larger reduction guides? Or do I need to adjust my expectations?
Thank You all in advance for any advice you can offer.

Couple of questions, What does the rest of your guide train consist of? Why the use of 17lb braid on a 4-8lb rod? and what is the approximate distance you are getting with your casts?

On the steelhead rods I have built using the KL-H guides I mostly use 20, 12 or 8, 5.5 then either 5 or 4.5 k-frame running guides.

Kristopher Byers
Villain Custom Rods
www.villaincustomrods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2013 03:08AM by Kristopher Byers.

I appreciate your reply Kristopher. To answer your questions, the running guides are size 7 to facilitate passing bobber stop knots if needed. Although when I began taping on my running guides I noticed for some reason I had an 8, so I used it for the first running guide. I had planned on using the 5.5s as recommended in the KR concept but thought they appeared extremely small, particularly for passing knots through. The more I consider it, passing knots may not be an issue with an 11'8" rod.
I have the 17lb braid because from what I understand it floats better & digs into itself on the spool less than thinner braids. To be completely honest I just made the change to braid recently so it is a new thing for me. Also I typically use about an 8lb leader.
My casts have been about 35yds, give or take a few feet.
I've also got a question. Since the kl-h guides in sizes 12-8 are so close in frame height, do you place them within inches of each other per GPS or space them out a bit more?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2013 07:15PM by Steve Martinez.

I know for a fact that the 5.5's pass bobber stops just fine, in fact I think that the angle of the kt running guides really helps it slide through. I have 2 9'6" bobber rods here that both have 5.5's on them and they work extremely well. Not sure about the 17lb braid floating better but I mostly use the 10lb power pro on my setups and just make sure that when you spool it on that you have mono backing covering the bare spool so the braid doesn't spin on the spool causing it to dig in. 35yds seems like a pretty good distance to me with 1/4oz weight, next time you cast it watch the going through the guides and make sure that there are no issues.

[anglersresource.net]

That is the best explanation of the true KR concept that I have found, the GPS is really good at getting close but I always double check the spacing on a strait edge like shown in that article and then follow the rest of the instructions. I edited my last post it should have read 12 or 8 sorry.

Kristopher Byers
Villain Custom Rods
www.villaincustomrods.com

Steve it appears to me you may have misunderstood a couple of things in your first read of the KR CONCEPT. First by introducing the spool diameter info you have mixed KR with 27X, not a big deal, but unnecessary with braid. Second, it appears you think ALL the KR guides need to be used in the reduction train (based on how close together they are) and again, you need to choose guides that space themselves properly for a good smooth reduction. This will take only 2 or 3 KL-H guides some 7 to 10 inches or so apart.

You are digesting a lot of info as a new builder. If it were me, I would go back and read the details again, and also look at the blog post "Building the KR CONCEPT Spinning Rod". I think it will outline the steps of the build a little better for you.

Kristopher and Jim, thank you again for the advice & willingness to help out a newb. I'll be taking your suggestions & another look at Anglers Resource & continue tinkering with it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers
Steve

Steve, regarding braid, 17 pound braid is fine, just don't abuse the rod with it. It's not the pound test that counts it's the drag setting and the treatment of the rod (see library article on preventing failures of graphite rods) that counts. My experience with braid as light as 6 pound test is favorable with name brand braids, which don't cut in like braids used to, especially if you use lighter drag settings. You might give Nanofil a try if distance is a priority. You have to be very careful with knots with Nanofil, however. If you are not familiar with braid to mono or braid to flouro knots, do a google search or ask here. Lots of guys do it and will help.

Thanks Michael.
Interestingly enough the 17lb braid I was using was the Nanofil. Great line, landed several fish on it. I noticed though that it began to have some memory. After a looking at some other braids it seemed to me a lot of them had a similar wire-like feel to them. In other words, I could pinch the line & it would hold the shape. Maybe its the cold Northwest winter. Needless to say the stiff coils did not flow through the smaller KL-H guides well as I would have liked. I changed to 10lb Power Pro Super Slick. For me it seems softer, casts unbelievably smooth & I was able to fit more on my spool. I am a fan of light drag settings & palming the spool to slow a charging fish, so the lighter test rating isn't much of a concern.
Following prior recommendations, I changed my runners to the KT5.5s and used KL-H 20, 12, 5.5 reduction train spaced per GPS. Casts like butter, 10+yds than before, & the KL guides are beautiful. It's going to be a pleasure to fish with. And Kristopher was right, the 5.5s pass bobber knots just fine.

Thanks again
Steve