Several years ago I learned from one of Lefty's books to use my thumb and forefinger to make a loop for the line to pass through before it enters the guide train during a cast. This method seems to work well for me. I wonder how many other fly casters use this method, and if doing so changes the ideal placement of the first guide on the rod blank?

Phil,
Why do you think that changing your casting method should result in a different guide placement?

Roger:

My line hand thumb and forefinger enclose the departing fly line during my casts, creating a de facto first guide located slightly below and to the side of the rod blank. This "finger guide" tames line loops before they enter the first rod guide and probably changes the angle of the line entering the first guide. I suspect this might influence the ideal size and placement of the first guide on the rod blank, but I don't know how.
I would be interested to know if others use this " finger guide" technique and to read if they have any suggestions to alter first rod guide placement to maximize he benefits of using this technique.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that your thumb and forefinger are not nearly as smooth and friction free as a good quality SIC guide, and would tend to cut down on casting distance due to added drag on the line.

Randolph:

A ceramic guide might lengthen my casts, but what really shortens my casts is a twist or a loop at the first guide stopping the cast dead. The "finger loop" technique seems to cut way back on the frequency of this event. Whatever added friction this technique adds I am usually able to double-haul a #4 Clouser ninety feet.

maybe there is a twist in the line coming off the reel

Where is this Loop coming from

Bill - willierods.com

I once discussed this technique with Lefty at a fly club meeting in PA. in the nineties. He told me the idea of the finger loop, was so that you do not lose control of the line while shooting line. ie. you are able to close the loop at any time during or after the cast. He never mentioned it as a gathering or taming guide.

Phil, you aren't casting from the reel. just make sure the line stripped off the reel lays in coils below your rod and you wont have any problems. You will still be able the control the distance of the cast. I f you weren't on the left coast, it would be fun to cast together. :>)

Re: Loops

Sight fishing estuaries requires stripping out a lot of line to be prepared for making a quick cast at a distant fish. At the same time most casts do not require casting even near all the line you have stripped out. Repeatedly casting only part of the line I have stripped out seems to create twists/loops in the remaining line. When the line is on the reel it can't twist. This is the only way I can think of that "not casting from the reel" enters into the picture.

Phil,

I'm not a fly fisherman in the least, and those who have seen my attempts at fly casting will concur. With that said, it sounds like the role of the finger loop is for 'feathering' a cast as we do with spinning and casting reels. In the casting reel, the thumb serves to feather the casts. WIth a spinning reel, one can stick out their index finger to feather the cast, or as I do use the reel hand to feather the cast and stop when needed. It sounds like a great little trick to use.

If you are having issues with the line entering the butt guide on the cast, why not try a larger ring there. I suspect that the finger loop is serving somewhat as a gathering guide, but for those who don't use the technique, increasing the size of the butt guide for those estuary rods might help. I doubt moving around the butt guide is going to do much, as the distance from your pile of line to the butt guide will vary from cast to cast, and adjusting the location may make the line harder to reach when stripping line. When I make a finger loop, I get something about 1" in diameter. Try sticking a 25mm guide at the butt and do some testing without the finger loop and see if that makes a difference.

Joe

Phil,

I'm surprised I haven't heard of this technique 'til now as I'm a big fan of Lefty's. I definately sounds like something he'd do. About every 4th or 5th double haul that I do, results in coils hanging up in the first couple of guides - so I can see how this technique could be of benefit. Plus, dragging around a stripping basket is often just too cumbersome and isn't entirely foolproof in eliminating coil hang-up anyway. I will definately give this technique a try.

My initial thought would actually be to move the stripping guide (and remaining guides proportionally) closer to the line hand in an attempt to eliminate the line sag that may occur between the line hand and the stripping guide during the casts intial outbound shooting stage. But, if I tire of this technique and need to resort back to the conventional "let go" technique, then I might wish I had left the stripping guide in it's more custommary position. I'd be more inclined to leave the guide where it's normally at.

Torin.

Neatly coiling my line as I strip it in would undoubtedly reduce loops and snags in subsequent casts. About 1/3 of the casts I make are from a sit-on-top kayak, and the other 2/3 are made from a small, dishpan type shooting basket while I'm wading. Neither of these situations is compatible with neatly coiling stripped in line, so loops and snags are an ongoing problem.

Phil I am no expert so keep that in mind.

I find I am better off not having all that extra line laying around. If I need to make that long cast I strip out what I need then. I might miss a few due to the extra time that takes. But then I have to contrast that with what I miss due to the mess I have made with all that extra line laying all over the place. I find I do better to keep my "average working cast" amount out and the rest on the reel. I readily admit I'm terrible at line management. I'm also a little terrified of what could happen if a really big fish took off at high speed and I got a wrap around my toe....LOL!

BTW, I have heard of Lefty's trick. I keep thinking the ideal solution is a free spool lever and centrifugal/magnetic cast control like a normal baitcaster so we can shot off the reel......even have toyed with the idea of trying an avley reel.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.