Hello folks,
I have been working on a surf rod and I chose to build a cord grip on the rod. I chose a forest green color to match the guide wraps. The grip looks nice and I decided to put a finish coat to make it easier to clean it and to prevent water intrusion. I decided to put a coat or two of color preserver to prevent darkening of the cord. The cord is a mixture of polypropylene and rayon. I wasn't worried about the rayon since the strength was not important. I have used rayon thread for trim raps and have not had a problem. I decided to use some tests to see how well the CP preserved the color. In this case the test cord turned extremely dark and has not returned to the original color. The first color preserver was U-4- Color Lock II. I then chose to repeat the tests with Flex Coat CP, Chroma Seal CP, Cason's Crystal clear CP, Al's Bamboo CP, and an old CP I had used called Classic Rod Coating Acrylic Color Preserver. The results were the same and all of the test pieces turned very dark (almost black). I then repeated this test with another cord which was made from a nylon/polyester mixture. The results were exactly the same. Every test resulting in a very dark result.

I am rather mystified by this and welcome any and all ideas. I would like to complete this rod for some spring fishing on the Oregon Coast. Everything is finished except for the grip finish. By the way I wrapped the rod with size A nylon Forest Green/Black color twist with a dark 2/0 Silk thread for trim. The Chroma Seal CP worked well as usual on the threads. Thanks in advance for your input and any suggestions for sealing the cord on the rod.

Mike Blomme

I don't think the cord is going to react the same way that wrapping thread does. Different materil.

Have you tried putting your finish directly onto the cord? Also, what type finish do you plan to use? Hopefully not epoxy.

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Michael, it will be interesting to see if you find any color preserver that does not darken the subject being protected. I find even water darkens thread until evaporated. Any residue left to provide UV protection most likely will change the color of the subject.

I have experimental pieces of varying ages i leave outside all year to check on effects of sun, weather etc.
I leave one side facing up (squirrels willing) so i can tell what the sun etc is doing to it. I keep some pieces inside to see what happens to that too.
here are some of my results:

Water based indoor/outdoor Delft poly,no CP, slight darkening of subject at application time(like water would do), coating becomes a Michelob ultra color after 12+ months in the sun, but as its thin its only noticeable when comparing whites to originals. Subject coated is lighter above than below so its fading but not as bad as the uncoated piece next to it. I would concluded there is some UV protection. I

Threadmaster One thinned 10% with distilled water: Almost 1 year outside and subject is again darkened at initial application.
Surface much more faded than underneath and almost would say other than protecting from scuffs air/rain etc its offers no UV protection i can detect with my kind of test. Finish itself is still crystal clear.

Threadmaster Lite over Flexcoat CP. The thread color is well preserved by the CP but darker. TM lite goes color of an average IPA beer within 1 year of being outside. Even underside and piece kept indoors is yellowed. Its epoxy and that is what it does.

maybe permagloss or LumiSeal Or an Auto Clear

Bill - willierods.com

I have put Perma_gloss over cord with very little change or darkening.

I do cord handles. I use Atwood cord with no finish and they clean pretty well, and a far sight better than any cork or EVA handle. Atwood has the UV in it...

Steve Paterson would be the guy to ask: [www.roostercustomrods.com]

What bloody cord are you using? The cord should be glued to the blank, Steve uses the 3M spray stuff and I use an epoxy. A picture would be nice as to what your trying to do.

Here is what I use: [www.atwoodrope.net]

Chuck

Hi Tom,
First, I was planning on using Tru-Oil or PermaGloss which I use on both wood and cork grips/reel seat inserts.
Second, I rebuilt a surf rod about two years ago and used a nylon cord for the grip. This cord was black except for two green cord inlay rings. I covered that with Tru-Oil and The green trim rings turned almost black. I realized I hadn't used CP so this time I decided to do a test with CP first. Alas That has hasn't proved as fruitful as I thought it would be. I am still a bit surprised by the results. I thought that CP work because they coat the the thread on the surface with a material that prevents finish from absorbing. The solvent in the CP eventually evaporates leaving only the solid materials. In the old days we were using what appeared to be diluted airplane lacquer or glue. The solvent evaporated from that as well often forming bubbles. Anyway, It appears that when CP is applied to these thicker cords it behaves differently--I'm not sure what is actually occurring here. I'm beginning to suspect that rod builders are not always understanding exactly how these processes work. At least I will confess that I am part of that group.

In any event I seem to be left with either protecting the cord from water intrusion and dirt or bright colors. water Protection sounds better than preserving the bright colors alas.

Thanks.

Mike Blomme

Hi Lou, Thanks for responding. I tried all of the different CP I had. I wish I had had some old Gudebrod 811 to try but that is long gone. I have tried the same tests that you are running, but on metallic threads. Some of those fade in just a few days when exposed to sunlight. My goal was to prevent the cord from darkening since I liked the bright colors.
I have used different CPs since the early 1960s and have been very successful with them on thread. I know there is always a slight darkening, but after the solvent evaporates most of the color returns. In the early days CP appeared to be a form of diluted model airplane lacquer, which had its own faults. As I mention in my reply to Tom K, I am going to have to reconcile myself to protecting the grip from water intrusion and dirt. Until I can fins something that will not darken I will use Black cord when I do cord grips.

Mike Blomme

Hi Lou, Thanks for responding. I tried all of the different CP I had. I wish I had had some old Gudebrod 811 to try but that is long gone. I have tried the same tests that you are running, but on metallic threads. Some of those fade in just a few days when exposed to sunlight. My goal was to prevent the cord from darkening since I liked the bright colors.
I have used different CPs since the early 1960s and have been very successful with them on thread. I know there is always a slight darkening, but after the solvent evaporates most of the color returns. In the early days CP appeared to be a form of diluted model airplane lacquer, which had its own faults. As I mention in my reply to Tom K, I am going to have to reconcile myself to protecting the grip from water intrusion and dirt. Until I can fins something that will not darken I will use Black cord when I do cord grips.

Mike Blomme

Hi Lou, Thanks for responding. I tried all of the different CP I had. I wish I had had some old Gudebrod 811 to try but that is long gone. I have tried the same tests that you are running, but on metallic threads. Some of those fade in just a few days when exposed to sunlight. My goal was to prevent the cord from darkening since I liked the bright colors.
I have used different CPs since the early 1960s and have been very successful with them on thread. I know there is always a slight darkening, but after the solvent evaporates most of the color returns. In the early days CP appeared to be a form of diluted model airplane lacquer, which had its own faults. As I mention in my reply to Tom K, I am going to have to reconcile myself to protecting the grip from water intrusion and dirt. Until I can fins something that will not darken I will use Black cord when I do cord grips.

Mike Blomme

Hi Bill Thanks for you reply. Iv'e tried Permagloss and it darkens as does Tru-Oil. I haven't tried an Auto Clear--I'll se if that works.

Mike Blomme

Hi Chuck, Thanks for your reply,
I visited the Rooster Rods website and immediately felt intimidated. I am in awe of anyone who has the patience to make cord weaves. I feel the same way about thread weaves. My thread art stopped at simple chevrons and diamonds. I find that work to tedious and time consuming. The only time I will do one for a customer is if he/she is willing to pay me highly. Thankfully my customers aren't willing to pay for it. I do admire the work of these artisans, but the stress of doing it would kill me. I also looked at the Atwood Rope web site. They seem to be a very good web site. Again, thanks for the info.

Mike Blomme