Question. Which distance is more likely to cause LINE SLAP on a spinning rod? A. A bit shorter distance from the reel to the stripper (say 17 -19") or ... B. A bit longer distance from the reel to the stripper (say 20-22") ? Thanks

Either in the extreme can cause it, although farther will cause it more quickly.

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Thanks Tom Have a great Show. I lament not be able to come this year!

Steve,
To look at it the other way, too short a distance can cause some line compression. But too long a distance will not cause any line compression which could affect casting distance.

As long as you have a resonably tall stripper guide you almost never have a line slap issue with any spinning rod.

Good luck
Roger

Does the type of line being used have anything to do with line slap, or is line slap chiefly determined by guide placement?

Phil,
I would expect that if you have heavy lb test mono line - you would be much more prone to line slap that light lb test braided line that tends to be very very limp.

Roger

Roger: I suspected the line plays a part; for an extreme example, casting #20 Mason mono vs. #20 braided spectra. Is there any concrete data on the subject of the interplay between guide placement and the type of line passing through these guides? Without such information it would be nearly impossible to minimize line slap in a custom built rod.

Florocarbon line (heavy) creates enhanced line slap on a spinning reel (rod). I avoid floro on my spinning reels unless I use a 3 or 4 ft. Leader.

OK
Then with all this about butt guide too close Why does the Spin Cast reels with a ( chock ) small ringe what 1/2" from the reel cast so well

I also get more distance from braid then mono I beleve it is because being limp it does not hold the pig tails and goes streight quicker then mono

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

Think of the spincast reel as having a microwave guide just in front of the spool. That funnel greatly reduces the number of paths that the line can take after it leaves the spool. The spincast reel gathers and controls the line almost immediately, making the requirements of the guide train essentially that of a casting rod. I suppose if you took a spinning reel with a spool diameter of 50mm and found a 60-70mm guide with the appropriate height and added a 10-12mm ring about an inch or so behind, you would likely get similar performance from a spinning reel. But, do you really want to add the bulk of that guide combination? That single butt guide would weigh at least several more times than most complete guide trains. The spin cast reel controls the line as it starts to billow out, rather than catching it on the way back down. The difference boils down to where the line is controlled.

With the spinning reel, the goal is to work at the other end of the wave envelope that sets the number of paths that the line may take. Take a look at some of the high speed camera shots of spinning reels, and look at what happens to the line about half-way between the reel and a butt guide location that is known to work well. Think of it as a guitar string. The line leaving the spool will have a set of peaks and nodes. After all, the line eventually needs to settle down to the path taken by the lure. Granted the peaks and nodes won't quite as well defined, but the effect is there. If you move the butt guide too close to that region where the line really flares, you will have line shooting past the ring and being pulled back through increasing friction with the guide, and may even back up the line flow enough to create line slap with the blank. This is one time where friction between the line and guide will play a significant role. If you move the butt guide too far toward the tip, the wave envelope will be large enough that line slap may occur.

As to when you expect line slap to occur based on guide location it will depend on all of the variables of the build and the casting conditions. Reel size/model, butt guide ring size and height, butt guide location, line diameter and type, etc. I don't believe there will ever be a set in stone solution to preventing line slap on spinning rods. The microwave may be as close as it gets with a single reduction train layout that works across a wide range of combinations. As long as you use one of the 'standard' techniques (cone of flight, ngc, 27x, KR/rapid choke, MW) within its recommendations line slap shouldn't be much of an issue. As far as how far you can push the limits for the sake of weight reduction on a particular build, it will depend on information provided by the end user. If the rod will be used in a very specific manner, you may be able to tune the guide train to casting a very specific lure. If the rod will be general purpose, used with a variety of reel sizes, line diameters, and types, you are best to test as many possible combinations to ensure that the rod performs well over as many combinations as possible.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 10:29AM by Joe Vanfossen.

Is there any site which displays high-speed video of the behavior different types of spinning line (stiff, braid, mono, fluoro, soft) through different sizes and different spacing of guides? Anecdotal evidence and speculation are better than nothing, but provide nothing to justify the expense of a custom build. Maybe it's not a new rod but a new line which is necessary. I don't know how difficult or expensive it is to capture video of line between leaving a spin-reel spool and entering the gathering guide, but I'm pretty sure this is the only way to replace speculation and opinion with credible evidence.

Phil,

As far as I know the only images/videos I've seen are the ones done by Fuji, Castaway, and Billy V. showing the difference of various guide train layouts with the same reel/line. If I had access to the equipment, I would love to give it a try testing a variety of combinations of reel/line/lure on the same blank. Otherwise, we are limited by our resources to test and compare results with what we have on hand, and pass along those experiences to the customer.

Joe

Phil, true data driven is always better with anything.

But we live in a competitive world.
I just cannot see somebody going to that cost and effort ( it would take weeks of work) then sharing the data with anybody.

A fishing magazine I recieve, unfortunatly, I cant remember which one, infisherman,nafc? A few months back, had still shots of line,floro and mono coming off the spool. It was incredible what it looked like. Really opened my eyes when considering builds and line types.

If you really want to see what various lines with guide combos/layouts does you can quite cheaply: go stand under a tall neon light and cast.
Like in a parking lot with overhead lights.
There was one in perdido pass( gone now for almost a year) and i accidentally noticed it one night that the 50-60 cycle of florecent light was showing me all kinds of things like a strobe in a 60's disco..
Spent a many evenings doing that and even got a few bluefish and the odd red for my time as a bonus.
At least within the limits of my casting, my lures, reels and line types i know what happens.
So yes its not published, i had to judge distance cast by eyeball(my choice i could have done it on land rather and not used a real lure but there you go), and the plural of anecdotes and opinions is still not = data but you can go do it yourself just to see what is happening.
Of course how you interpret what you are seeing is a whole 'nother story.