I am guessing my threadmaster bottles are the high build as they do not say lite on them....
anyone else having trouble with massive amounts of bubbles when mixing, even when warmed?
This is crazy! Wonder if something has gone severly wrong with the bottles or if this is normal, ordering flex coat to try that...
is high build normally a bubble fight? and used normally on guide wraps or is lite more common, and maybe just two coats of lite for the guides....
thanks!
Jared Retter

Light will release bubbles a lot more then high build
people frown on it but you can thin it

Bill - willierods.com

Are you moving your stirer when mixing?

Have you tried pouring the epoxy out onto a flat surface after mixing?

Bubbles are introduced either when mixing or applying, the epoxies themselves do not generate bubbles. If you mix too vigorously or brush the epoxy on to the wraps this is probably the cause. As mentioned above, after mixing, pour the epoxy out onto a flat surface, ideally foil. This creates a thinner puddle with the bubbles closer to the surface. I then blow on the mix trough a straw witch pops the bubbles.

I us Threadmaster regular and lite successfully without a bubble issue. Because the Lite is a thinner liquid, bubbles do dissipate more readily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 12:11PM by Phil Erickson.

I have been mixing according to the flex coat video, not lifting up and smoothly, it seems that in one of the syringes that it has bubbles in it before it even mixes, and it instantly forms many large bubbles upon the lightest of mixing...

I love TM!... I whip it up to a frothy mix (full of bubbles) and then put it on the wraps quick, let it turn and then go back to hit any spots that need small touch ups. Then I hit each with a fast moving torch... Bubbles Gone and a great time to wick away excess finish. IMO TM has a much shorter pot life than a number of other finishes I use and I like it. It does exactly what I want it to do. Some times ill mix two batches to coat one rod. I'll do half and half. Just the way I swing with TM and it goes against all that I read about mixing and applying. Works great for me so I'm sticking to it.

Greg Cudnik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love TM!... I whip it up to a frothy mix (full
> of bubbles) and then put it on the wraps quick,
> let it turn and then go back to hit any spots that
> need small touch ups. Then I hit each with a fast
> moving torch... Bubbles Gone and a great time to
> wick away excess finish. IMO TM has a much
> shorter pot life than a number of other finishes I
> use and I like it. It does exactly what I want it
> to do. Some times ill mix two batches to coat one
> rod. I'll do half and half. Just the way I swing
> with TM and it goes against all that I read about
> mixing and applying. Works great for me so I'm
> sticking to it.

Me too....why be normal.

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don

Hi Jared,
If you have bubbles in one syringe you are going to upset the ratio and you might get a batch that doesn't set up properly. I've got the syringes in the caps and invert the bottles about 5 minutes prior and this gives any bubbles time to rise so you don't draw them into the syringe. I've been using threadmaster high build and lite for over five years and I find it suits me well and I get good results. A mechanical mixer will greatly reduce the amount of bubbles you get in a mix. Read the article in the library on mechanical mixers before you commit to one noting that speed is critical but can be alleviated by the size and weight of the mixer. I use a small gas torch to get rid of any other bubbles by quickly passing it back and forth over the finish to reduce the viscosity which allows the bubbles to escape and also helps the levelling. If you give the heat a try do a bit of testing before you use it on a rod. You need to learn how long you can heat the finish before it starts to smoke and burn which is a no no.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Jared, if your getting bubbles in your syringes that is because while pulling back on the syringe plunger, you're pulling the tip of the syringe slightly out of the epoxy in the bottle and some air is getting in. If this happens, refill the syringe assuring you keep the tip below the surface of the epoxy and you should have no bubbles in the syringe anymore.

Once you dispense bubble-free epoxy into your mixing cup, the ONLY way you can realistically get bubbles in is by mixing too aggressively. Round stirrers are better than flat stirrers as the sharp edges of flat stirrers create a venturi effect drawing air into your mixture.

I've watched the flex-coat video and to me it seems like they are stirring about twice as fast as necessary for room-temperature epoxy. Thicker finishes will require slower stirring, thinner finishes can be stirred more quickly. That is why warming the finish is recommended, warming thins the finish and makes it more tolerant to stirring too quickly. All things being equal, a cold finish that is too quickly stirred will have more and larger bubbles than the same finish at a warmer temperature and the warmer epoxy will more easily expel the fewer and smaller bubbles than room temperature epoxy.

I find that with small bottles of finish, if you put the bottles in your pocket about an hour or so before your mix the finish that you'll warm the epoxy to a nice working temperature with no chance of getting it too hot.

Otherwise, the rest of the info in the flex coat video seems well presented.

I do not like to blow on finish once poured onto aluminum foil, you will inevitably get some moisture or saliva in your finish. a better choice would be to use some mechanically supplied air. I use an old hair dryer that I disconnected the heating element from it. Set on low, I get the dry air i need to pop those shy bubbles that are reluctant to work their way to the surface of the mix.

Lastly, don't paint your finish on. Apply it and just nudge the high spots to help spread it around letting it self level without going into the finish deep enough touch your thread with the bristles of your brush. if you drag a brush tip sideways across your thread you will introduce more bubbles into your finish.

you will here lots of wayes to mix an an use , you will have to try some an find one that works for you , I even but some DNA in my mix when mixing to help with the bubbles , as I mix small amounts in a 1 TB messuring spoon , I hold the spoon in my hand to warm it up then but 1 or 2 drops of DNA on top after the mix an warming an all the bubbles are gone , your brush can add to the brubble problem
one of the supplyers on this forum has a bubble buster spray an it works l great on the light build

Jared,

Just get a new batch and toss out what you have now. At some point in time, the longer you do this, you will run into an issue with finish. I went to NERB's meeting ounce and the subject came up. Put it out of your head and get a new batch... All the products used for rod finish are good, but it's a chemical reaction that takes place, and we are rod builders -- not chemists.

All the advice you have gotten here is solid, and everyone has his own quirky way of doing finish. It ain't rocket science, but the finish has to do its own thing; if it ain't working right get rid of it.

Chuck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 12:25PM by Chuck Howard.

I am with Greg, I whip it into a frothy mess, toss it on some foil for a few minutes, maybe blow on it help release but that is it. The finish if cool will hold bubbles longer than warm. If it is cold (I live in MN) then I will put them in my pocket for a few minutes prior. If the finish is bad dump it, thing with finish is less is more.

One thing I do is use the same mix cup over and over, one becasue I am lazy and cheap, but two becasue after a time or two the bottem is smooth and mixing with little to no bubbles is easy.

Eric

Let's remember that Jared, the original poster, is somewhat new and inexperienced at finishing. Some recommendations made above, like ignoring the bubbles and hitting the finish with an open flame, are better suited to much more experienced finishers in a semi-production operation. Keeping inexperience in mind I would offer the following thoughts:

Assuming there is nothing chemically wrong with the batch of epoxy your using, Bubble-free finishing is >98% thoughtful technique and <2% epoxy brand or type selection (as in thin or thick viscosity finish). Let me stress it is completely unnecessary to add any chemical, including Denatured Alcohol (DNA), to epoxy to remove bubbles. That's like the guy who spends $50 on a full synthetic oil change and adds a $1.95 can of "oil enhancer" to make his oil "better"; at best your doing no harm, at worst you're chemically degrading the quality of your finish. If the chemists who designed your epoxy felt that adding DNA (or any other additive) to it would make it better they would do so. Are we suddenly smarter than the chemists who designed the epoxy? I don't know about you all, but I'm pretty sure I'm not...

Except for bubbles that escape out of your thread as the finish soaks into your thread, any bubbles in your finish are the result of non-optimal human technique, human error if you will. Perfect human technique at every stage of finishing will result in a totally bubble free finish. Since perfection is not achievable, we get bubbles. The goal here should be to master (not perfect) your technique to a point you are happy with the quality of your finish.

It really is just as simple as this - if you find you are getting an unacceptable amount of bubbles in your finish you should change what your doing that is causing the bubbles. Again, this is human error, nothing more, nothing less.

Determine at what step or steps your getting bubbles. Does it happen before you mix, as your mixing, after you mix and pour the finish out, or during the application of the finish to rod componentry like thread, decals or the blank itself.

Pinning down the point at which bubbles become a problem for you, and understanding why your poor technique causes bubbles to form, is the key to improving your technique; this will help you find the knowledge to help you correct your specific bubble problem.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 01:02PM by John E Powell.

Jared,
Don't worry about the bubbles.
Mix up the finish the necessary time, apply the finish, go over each wrap and wrap with a heat gun.
The wind and heat from the gun will quickly and easily take care of the bubbles.

Just do gentle passess with the heat gun to avoid over heating, but the wind and temperature rise will quickly displace any bubbles and let the finish flow nicely for a perfect finish.

Roger

There is always discussion on the best way to mix and apply finish. I want to start off by saying that everyone has to find the way that works best for them but I want to share the way I do it and hopefully someone will find some of it useful. I do not apply finish the way you are "supposed" to.
I measure out equal parts (with syringes) into a shot glass and mix it with the back end of a throw away brush. I don't worry about bubbles just a good mix for about 2 minutes. I dump the finish into one of those 3" aluminum dishes that Mud Hole sells and place it on an electric candle warmer for just a few seconds. This makes ALL of the bubble disappear and makes the finish a little runnier (I like it that way). I like to take my time applying the finish and it sometimes gets to thick so I set the dish back on the warmer for a few seconds to make it runny again. I DO brush the finish on an create a few more bubbles. When I am done with all of the guides I take a small butane pencil torch and quickly move over the finish to pop any bubbles and take off excess finish.

Like I said... my way. I hope this lets everyone know that you can do it anyway that works for you.

______________________________________
Super Tight Lines......Don

Thank you everyone for your help! I have lots of new things to try to avoid problems!