I am doing a few heavy saltwater rods and for the first time i will be doing underwraps. My question is this. I will wrap the underwraps and apply a coat of finish. In a few days i will wrap the guides over the underwraps that have been finished. Do i need to scuff up the finish on the underwraps to help the new coat adhere better?

Kevin Gross
Many men will spend their whole life wondering if they made a difference. Marines dont have that problem - Ronald Regan

I've never encountered any issues by not doing it

Ron Weber

No, you don't need to scuff the finish. Also consider using a urethane finish on the underwraps. It dries harder, making it easier to pack the wraps.

the only reason i would scuff the underwrap is if i had more than a week between coats

www.southriverrodsllc.com

Polyurethane wouldn't be my choice. It's abrasion resistant but not really all that hard--ordinary oil based interior varnish is considerably harder. In particular, polyurethane varnishes are more likely to have adhesion problems than other finishes--even multiple coats of the same poly can have problems if not applied in just the right window of time. You would be better off using a thin coat of the same finish you will use on the overwraps.

I usually try to get additional coats of epoxy finish on in a 36-48 hour window. A week between I would certainly scuff...lightly.

You can also coat with LumiSeal A tad thicker then permagloss

Bill - willierods.com

NO

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

What do you mean -- No

Bill - willierods.com

NO, is the answer to his question!

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

I agree with Dennis and his "NO". I'd like to hear an explanation of just how scuffing the finish ...and then covering the scuffed finish with thread... is going to be an improvement over "unscuffed." By that logic, we should be scuffing the finish on the blanks also right?

Could anyone tell the differnce between a rod that had its underwraps pre-finished and one that didn't and why is it necessary to pre-finish the uderwraps?

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

What i was referring to was coating the base wrap with Lumiseal A hard coating that is similar to blank coatings and hard
Easy to wrap over Finish the thread tends to - sink - into and make it hard to Pack thread If wrapped lightly - since thread holds guides in place - the guides are not held in place tightly

Not putting it over a thread finish

Even putting NCP A thread on the base No CP needed Then a Permagloss or LumiSeal

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 05:13PM by bill boettcher.

It's not necessary and lengthens the construction process by requiring additional drying time. I think some people like to do it because they may feel it gives them a smoother surface to wrap the same size thread on top. For example wrapping A over A can make burnishing the top layer of A more challenging, but it certainly is not difficult if your using proper thread tension. In fact, using finish can make things more difficult especially if you wrap your thread too tightly as it will dig into the recently cured finish and actually make moving threads or burnishing more difficult.

If you pack your underwrap tightly and burnish it from the edges towards the center, then wrap the top wrap with proper tension, you should need very little effort to get the top layer to sit nicely over the same sized underwrap. Almost all of my rods receive underwraps because of their intended use, I've never found a need or benefit to using any kind of finish on an underwrap even with two top wraps.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 05:22PM by John E Powell.

That is why using a Urethane - drys fast - hard and one can wrap tighter to hold a Heavy rod guide better

Drying over night and one can put several coats since it sets fast on in a day

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

If it gives you some level of confidence or you feel in the end it's easier for you then by all means go for it; that's a valid reason for sure. I've just never found a compelling need or benefit to do what your describing as I can accomplish the same kind of wrap without taking the extra step(s) which saves me a lot of time, if even just overnight as you suggest.

All my rods are for use in the salt, a lot of them have underbinds and the only time I have done that is on a 50lb game rod which I don't think was necesarry. Several other 20 and 30 lb game rods have held up fine with just cp on the underbind and between the two overbinds. I'm with John on that as you have to let the finish harden right up before overbinding or packing and burnishing might be impossible if it digs into the finish.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

I am not crazy about wrapping over a base wrap with nothing on it
I know a lot do it this way

I just feel Hay It makes things a lot easier to do and on heavy duty rods the thread should be at least tightly wrapped

The thread holds the guides on --- not the finish

Bill - willierods.com

For sure i am going to put a coat of finish on the underwraps. I dont trust it that the finish will soak through two coats of NCP thread and adhere to the blank along with filling in the tunnels.

Kevin Gross
Many men will spend their whole life wondering if they made a difference. Marines dont have that problem - Ronald Regan

Bill,You can go any way like but, "All roads lead to home"!

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)