Does anyone know where to find pricing and if they are even available for that matter online? Wanted to compare to K pricing

try alex at hydra or lance at swampland

i have email alex before to ask about price their micro
this is the copy of alex's quotation from my email

Retail Pricing:
MZCT BC 4-x.x = Kigan Black Micro tops - 4 ring in tube sizes 1.6 (4.5) to 2.8mm (7) Coalite Ring = $2.75
ZCG BC 4 = Kiigan Black Z Guide size 4 Coalite ring = $2.26
ZCG BC 3 = Kigan Black Z Guide size 3 Coalite ring = $2.26

What do you guys think about these compared to fuji? Hopefully a little more economical. I havent had a problem yet with the fuji k series SiC rings failing, but my rods are pretty new. Has the redesigned frame corrected this problem. Reason being, I have had three inserts pop out on my tsvsg in the past. Never had a problem with steel frames, just the ti.

Dennis,

Thanks for the email and post. I'll email pricing shortly. Availability is by special order at this time. Swampland and Bingham Enterprises can fulfill those orders as both are Hydra/Kigan dealers.

We're very excited about our Titanium Zero Tangle guides that offer zero inference in the larger sizes. We currently have a guide failure rating of 1 of 1000 across all of our guide models. We think that is pretty great!

The Ti frames will be available in plain TI and Gunmetal finish. St Croix is using the Gunmetal Ti Z Guides on the redesigned Legend Inshore that won saltwater rod of the year this past July. We'll also have some new additions coming by the rod expo in February!

Thanks for inquiry - look for an email.

- Alex

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

Thanks for your prompt reply Alex. I will definitely have to try an xla hookeeper being that I just lost a snook last week due to a entaglement while freelining with a snake guide used as a keeper on an old rod. I am looking forward to what you have coming in the future.

Dennis -

You can also eliminate that problem by using a RECoil RSFX single foot guide as a hook keeper. That's what I use on rods with Titanium framed guides.

Jim -

I have been using Kigan guides for over a year on all builds except for fly rods and one that I did with the new AmTak Microwave guides. I have not had any failures and I like the fact that the feet are long on the micro guides, making them easier to wrap and have less chance of pull out. I plan to continue using Kigan's for all my builds (minus fly rods).

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

The difference between a titanium guide and a guide vapor-coated with titanium is pretty much the same as the difference between a gold ring and a gold-plated ring. How thick is the coating? One micron? The consumer has a right to an accurate description of the goods.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the assumption the guides I were referring to are a solid titanium frame not coated. Thought there were two options like fuji, either solid ti or ti coated steel. I am still debating the zirconia rings vs SIC, in which I assumed SIC is superior, but believe I saw test data saying Zirconia is harder and slicker. Idk, I always was told that gold cermets were the best ring made but cant see why fuji stopped making if that was the case. I still dont think your guides should cost more than your blank, but Im the dumb one who keeps buying em. How much can titanium really be?

Phil - I'm not sure if your reference to Ti vs. Ti coating is in reference to Kigan or in general, but it brings up a great opportunity for clarification.

Kigan Ti guides are manufactured using titanium. They are not Ti coated stainless. We do offer a plasma ion coated Ti frame. Is this needed? No. However our OEM customers have requested options and our Gunsmoke coating over Ti offers something different. The coating also offers a margin of abrasion resistance on a premium level product.

We've also paired our Ti frames with our high purity Zirconia ceramic rings. Our Zirconia rings are our premium offering simply because of the qualities they possess. Everyone has always thought SiC was the best, and in some situations it may be. So Dennis to your point - remember the marketing efforts over many years now have been that SiC was the best. I'd bet this was due to the invest various companies decided to make. Sometimes when you look at data and numbers, you can find other things out.

There was a great discussion on SiC and Zirconia around this same time last year: [rodbuilding.org]

Excerpt:

When a top quality Zirconia ceramic is used for a fishing rod guide ring, it has some very desirable characteristics which are a strong challenger to and surpass SiC. These include modulus of rupture or bend strength (890 - 930Mpa) and toughness (9-13 MPa x m1/2) that really surpass SiC. That MOR is important because it's a mechanical parameter for brittle material. Where SiC passes in tensile strength, Zirconia is a contender in compressive strength.

A Zirconia ring can also be made very thin due to it's density (5.5-6.05 g/cm3) which can help make it a light, thin guide ring and still do outstanding at transmitting vibrations. The small grain size of Zirc also allows for extremely smooth surfaces and precise edges when needed.

Zirconia is often used in parts such as artificial teeth, due to it's abrasion resistance and toughness. Regardless, both materials are excellent for guide rings

Just remember - not all SiC or Zirconia are created equal. Our Zirconia rings are more expensive because of the purity we use. Market prices dictate this material be priced higher because the raw materials cost more.

Thanks for the opportunity and platform to present more detail and educate everyone on the quality of Kigan guides!

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

Does "manufactured using titanium" mean the same thing as "made of solid titanium?" After enduring the hours of double talk in our latest election I have become vey cautious of wording that appears to have a built in escape clause. I'm not even sure whether a solid titanium is frame is different from or more desirable than a "plasma ion coated Ti frame,"
but I appreciate a free education.

Phil.

I sense some trepidation regarding our products and I will guess there is a lack of research and experience in the products prior to the assumptions/generalizations put forth. This really opens a great opportunity to talk about them and get the correct facts out there. All in all, it's quite different than your comparison of "pretty much the same as the difference between a gold ring and a gold-plated ring". That really is far from the reality.

I apologize if my reply wasn't clear enough. Yes - Solid Titanium Alloy. Yes the Plasma Ion coated frame is different in that it has a thin film over the top of the Ti frame. Same Ti guides have a coating on top.

As for value, only you can decide. I invite you to try our products and make your own assessment. It's great to have options though. Thanks!

- Alex

(edited to add Alloy)

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2012 11:48PM by Hydra Fishing, LLC.

Alex:

Thanks for the straight talk. Until now I haven't considered any "titanium guide products" other than 100% NiTi guides from one of your competitors -because they clearly described the physical specifics of their product. You have offered an alternative. Buzz words and vapid hype dominate the current sport fishing industry. Rod builders tend to be clever and creative individuals who soon discover what works and what doesn't, in defiance of what is spent on whiz-bang promotions. Fishermen are apparently a tight-knit group of consumers with an acute sense to detect lies. Why, I don't know.

Comments deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 05:40PM by John E Powell.

John,

Solid is primarily in reference to Phil's question regarding plating. Some items I do have to say "can't share that" for competitive reasons. If you choose not to believe, I'd ask that you challenge all of our competitors to the same question first.

I will go back and verify we use an alloy and not pure Ti. I'll also see if there are deeper specifics I can share.

Please feel free to contact us directly with your specific concerns since you'd like to delve deeper. We'll be in the office tomorrow for most of the day. Our number is on the web site. Also, feel free to forward your contact information and we'll contact you. I would drop you an email, but it's hidden. Thanks for your interest!]

-Alex

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

Comments deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 05:39PM by John E Powell.

John,

Since things were being questioned overall regarding vagueness (which I agree is rampant in the industry), I wanted to be forthright and clear what the update was since it would have only shown as "Edited 1 Time(s)". If I am wrong regarding alloy staus, I'll update immediately. I want to be sure accurate information is readily available. I apologize if I caused confusion by that.

Hopefully it says something about the belief we have in the product in that we don't just sell it for others to use. A bulk of our business relies on using the exact same products we offer to out customers and dealers. (This includes blanks, guides, and grips with other products coming soon)

Also, the offer still stands to give us a call. I often find lots of good things come out when you have a chance to talk to the folks who use or might use your products.

Thanks!

Alex

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

Fuji uses a titanium alloy, REC uses a titanium nickel alloy. Steel is an alloy. Gold, as we know it in jewelry - 10k, 14k and 18k are alloys. Aluminum foil are cans are alloys. Brass is too.

This will probably fall under "trade secrets" as to the actual titanium alloy grade composition. Maybe not. I do recommend Hydra/Kigan to anyone that is interested in their lineup. My experiences have been nothing short of stellar.

it is said :

if you ask - How Much - you can not afford it

if you do not have the money get what you can buy
There are so many types and makers of guides
I would say that at least 60 % of them are good for most rods

Yet they say there's are the best my Rods are the best built rods around

Buy a set and try them
The only way to tell !!!!

Bill - willierods.com