Ok, I need some help from the Vertical Jigging Rod experts. I fish a lot in Mexico where we have some really brutal Yellowtail ( very much like Amberjack) and the Vertical Jigging really produces. The problem with these fish is that they are caught really close to the bottom with lots of coral and rocks. We normally fish 80 lb spectra with 60 Mono top shot and sometimes that is marginal. So with a jigging rod which will be used in 100 to 150 feet of water, and jigs mostly in the 100 gram to 150 gram weight. So do I build a rod with 100 to 150 gram weight in mind and use the 80 lb line (which is way over reccomended) or do I use a rod that is designed for 325 gram weights so that I can get by with the 80 lb line?

I suspect that the answer is use the heavy line but use a rod that is made for lighter jigs. But I wonder if the rod will be able to pull these monsters up from the deep without putting undue stress on the rod.

Many manufacturers recommend the upper limit line range that they do in order to keep the line the weak link in the chain. Using a line with a breaking strength greater than that recommended could make the rod the weak link. There are numerous ways to break a rod, with over-lining one of those ways. If you need to use 80lb line, I'd get a blank which is rated to handle it.

............

That was kind of my thinking, but the manufactures are saying very clearly that the action of the jig is clearly a function of the rod, so a heavy rod will have good action on a 350 gram jig but terrtible action on a 100 gram jig, if I am reading it right.

They guys at Mudhole told me that they have heard from the manufacturer of their vertical jigging blanks and they say to go with the blank that matches your jig weight. Maybe Billy Vivona will weigh in here.

That makes sense from a standpoint of having the right movement of the jig. It makes no sense, however, in terms of whether the line used will be stronger than the rod you're using it on.

So your choice is to get the correct blank for the jig weight you intend to use and stay within the manufacturer's line rating to protect the blank, or get the correct blank for for the jig weight you intend to use and over-line the rod, putting the rod in jeopardy.

.............

You could try the Black Hole Cape Cod Special 250 G as it could handle jigs down to that weight and is a phenomenally strong rod. Others to think about are the Jigging Master Three Kings Special and the Synit Deep Shot and the new Synit Kaha range.


I've built a couple of these now and love them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2012 05:10PM by Tom Kirkman.

This application is requiring 2 different needs. Workability of a lighter lure and the backbone of a heavier rod. You might want to consider the Three Kings Special 53L or M. This blank will give you the lure tip and the backbone that you will need.

Kevin Knox
ANGLER'S ENVY CUSTOM RODS
QUEEN ANNE, MD 21657
#_#_#_#_#
www.anglersenvy.com

Jim,
Buy the blank for the weight of the jig.
Set the drag on the reel so that you don't break the blank when you catch the fish.

As long as the drag is set right, there is no reason to break a rod.

Any time that I build a rod, I want the rod to work with the lure or bait that I am using. I will take my chances on the line.

Roger

kevin knox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This application is requiring 2 different needs.
> Workability of a lighter lure and the backbone of
> a heavier rod. You might want to consider the
> Three Kings Special 53L or M. This blank will
> give you the lure tip and the backbone that you
> will need.

After watching your You-Tube videos, I was hoping you might weigh in. I think you are right about getting closer to the right action. Right now I use an Avet Raptor set to 40+ lbs at full and it works very well to keep these fish off of the bottom, so I need heavy drag to accomplish what I want to do. I have tried a couple of rods that will pull the weight, but they do not have the flex to work the jig properly, so I guess I will buy a couple of blanks and see which works out the best. I have wrapped the last two blanks with a modified Acid Wrap, meaning the first guide is straight 90 and then I do the trasition to the bottom of the rod. Bottom grip is split so the rod works well under your arm in the right position, so guess I will wrap a couple more blanks and see if I can break one. Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks, Sorry about that, I was away for a couple days.

The 53L will be the way to go on this. It has a tip action of 120 and a lifting power of 300. This will give you what you need.

If you need the jiggingmaster products, let me know and I can get them for you.

Kevin

Kevin Knox
ANGLER'S ENVY CUSTOM RODS
QUEEN ANNE, MD 21657
#_#_#_#_#
www.anglersenvy.com

Jim Anderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was kind of my thinking, but the manufactures
> are saying very clearly that the action of the jig
> is clearly a function of the rod, so a heavy rod
> will have good action on a 350 gram jig but
> terrtible action on a 100 gram jig, if I am
> reading it right.
>
> They guys at Mudhole told me that they have heard
> from the manufacturer of their vertical jigging
> blanks and they say to go with the blank that
> matches your jig weight. Maybe Billy Vivona will
> weigh in here.

Billy's dealing with his entire rodbuilding shop being underwater right now, and the clean up process. Therefore, I will see if I can contribute.

I would think that bIlly would recommend one of the following.


LENGTH LINE SINKER/Jig BUTT TIP WEIGHT PRICE
HERCULES INSHORE SERIES

Inshore Heavy 7 7'2 30-60 5-16 1-4 0.7 8.5 7.0 115

HERCULES OFFSHORE JIGGA SERIES
GTS 60 H 6' 40-80 4-16 0.73 9 5.2 95
GTS 60 XH 6' 50-100 8-20 0.74 9 5.7 100
GTS 70 H 7'2 40-80 4-16 1-4 0.8 9 7.2 124
GTS 70 XH 7'2 50-100 6-32 2-8 0.84 9 8.4 134
I think the 70h would be perfect for the job.

150 grams= 5.3ozs.... Therefore I feel like one of these blanks will fit the job. The GTS 70 H is an all around great blank for jigging, if your looking for a shorter version check out the 6' GTS 60 H.

The XH would be way too heavy in my opinion. Guaranteed that the 70h will put the brakes on even the biggest yellowtail around, the rod has so much power. You can still fish you 80lb line with no problem. You can find more info about the blanks on the left in the NERBS page under "Buy Stuff"

Any more questions feel free to ask, as I know that Billy has his hands tied, and I'm trying to do my part in helping everyone out with questions, even though no one can answer as he does.


Another option would be one of the heavier Calstar Grafighters with the glass tip. I can picture that would almost be picture perfect.


Good luck and tight wraps

We need some more info.

How much drag are you using?
You said you have a Raptor and are using 40+ pounds of drag. If this is true, then you need a 400+ gram jigging rod. None of the lighter rods can handle that amount of drag. I have a JM 3 Kings Heavy for my HX Raptor. It is a good match for Bluefin Tuna and overkill for everything else I encounter but still light enough to work.

What is your jigging style?
If you are just bouncing off bottom, then the rod has less of an effect on the jig. It is the angler imparting the action. If you are "squidding", i.e. hit bottom, fast jerking retrieve up 20-30 feet then drop down, then again a heavy rod with a stiffer tip will be fine. If you are speed jigging Japanese style by ripping a lure up through the whole water column, then the right styled rod is needed to impart the correct action on the lighter jigs.
My 400G rod works tuna jigs in the 200-500 gram range just fine. It also works jigs in the 300-750 gram range just fine bouncing along the bottom for bottom fish.

A 300g rod will usually handle up to 20 pounds of drag. That is a lot and can stop lots of fish from going into their rock homes. If you need more then I would go up to a 400, 450 or 500g rod.
Properly working a lure is pointless if you are going to break the rod trying to turn the fish. Work a little differently/harder with a heavier rod and actually catch the fish.

What he said ^

:)

Tom Locke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need some more info.
>
> How much drag are you using?
> You said you have a Raptor and are using 40+
> pounds of drag. If this is true, then you need a
> 400+ gram jigging rod. None of the lighter rods
> can handle that amount of drag. I have a JM 3
> Kings Heavy for my HX Raptor. It is a good match
> for Bluefin Tuna and overkill for everything else
> I encounter but still light enough to work.
>
> What is your jigging style?
> If you are just bouncing off bottom, then the rod
> has less of an effect on the jig. It is the angler
> imparting the action. If you are "squidding", i.e.
> hit bottom, fast jerking retrieve up 20-30 feet
> then drop down, then again a heavy rod with a
> stiffer tip will be fine. If you are speed jigging
> Japanese style by ripping a lure up through the
> whole water column, then the right styled rod is
> needed to impart the correct action on the lighter
> jigs.
> My 400G rod works tuna jigs in the 200-500 gram
> range just fine. It also works jigs in the 300-750
> gram range just fine bouncing along the bottom for
> bottom fish.
>
> A 300g rod will usually handle up to 20 pounds of
> drag. That is a lot and can stop lots of fish from
> going into their rock homes. If you need more then
> I would go up to a 400, 450 or 500g rod.
> Properly working a lure is pointless if you are
> going to break the rod trying to turn the fish.
> Work a little differently/harder with a heavier
> rod and actually catch the fish.


When live bait fishing for these Yellowtail, they will take up to 40 lbs of drag during initial hookup to keep out of the rocks. In the old days of using 25 lbs of drag, you had to "knowingly" thumb the reel to keep them out of the rocks, but it is for a short period of duration, not for the whole fight. Anybody that has ever used a rod for these type of fish, knows that you point the rod more directly at the fish for the initial run and then settle down to an easier 25 pounds or so of drag for the fight. They seem to give up a little when you stop them quickly with drag and then they come up easier. ( Egads, here I am psychoanalyzing the mentality of the Yellowtail) So I still think I need a little beefier rod than normal but not enough so overkill as to mess up the action. We use the Japanese style of jigging through the water column and definately are trying for reaction strikes. I have been an "Iron" fisherman for more years than I want to remember so I know how to work the iron, but this Japanese Vertical Jigging is getting strikes from fish that I other wise would miss.

I have tried the Calstar blanks and build almost all of the saltwater stuff on either Seeker or Calstar, but they lack something in the Japanese style of vertical jigging, so I think I will be buying Japanese blanks to try out for the season and then letting proper rod handling do the work from there. We have a group of fishermen out of San Carlos, Mexico ( on the other side of the Sea of Cortez) who are doing that very well. The fish tend to run a little smaller over there than they do on our side, but the jigging action seems to be the most important issue here. Will post my experiences after catching a couple dozen Yellowtail.