So, I got it my first Minima's last evening. I quickly compared them to the single foot wire fly guides I had in the house and was really shocked by how much lighter they were. I know the guide sizes were not equal so that obviously would make a noticible difference but I compared 5 number 3 wire fly guides at a weight of 8 grams to the 5 number 3 minims at a weight of 2 grams. I see now why these guides have been recommended in the past to replace single foot wire fly's.
I have found my new guides for all future fly rods. I've not built with them in any other format but I could see them really benefiting UL panfish rods and speciality finess bass rods (drop shot, split shot possibly jig worm).

What are your thoughts of the Minima's? Are these prefered over Recoil's?

Thanks,
Tom

Most folks who have built with Pac Bay Minima's have been well pleased with the builds.

It is always the choice of the builder and the client as to the choices made for a rod build.

Roger

Thomas,
i have been using minimas for some years now and love them even on inshore spinning rods.
Recoils have their place especially where bumping the guide is a common thing, recoils can survive that better(bad rod lockers etc).

Some folks just prefer the look of a snake type guide on a fly rod. The customer pays so he gets to chose.
Snake style do seems to pass a knot easier than the equivalent size ring on a minima.

Minimas are excellent on panfish rods, cannot speak to ice season use as outside of a tall adult beverage we don't see too much of it in Memphis.
I actually mix minimas and the big Microwave guides from Swampland for over a year now. Works out very well for me and my customers love them: no durability issues with braid or mono in both fresh and salt water.

I have them on fly, spinning, bass rods, and now Muskie rods - everyone likes them!

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!

Thomas Kaufmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I compared 5 number 3
> wire fly guides at a weight of 8 grams to the 5
> number 3 minims at a weight of 2 grams.
! 5 Wire fly#3 guide for 8 gram!
Cant belive it ! What brand ?
And ring size offre Minima 4 #3 is way over smaller.
What style frame for Minima 4.
It seems you compare apple and banana.

I really like Minima 4 and use it à lot, but please re weight (or tell brand and style).

Eric, I will check tonight it is very possible that I used the wrong weight.

I think so, for me 5 Minima 4 F style in size 3 weight les than ONE gram (as 5 Size #3 Fly Single Foot Wire are too in the ONE gram).

Eric,

Just got home and remeasured the guides. The wire flys are at .028 oz and the minima's are .014 oz. I don't recall who made the flys. Yes, I do realize that this is an "apples to bananas" comparison. It was never meant to be a head to head type of comparison. I was just shocked that I could utilize the minimas (no knots to pass) and save the amount of weight that I did.

Eric,

Just got home and remeasured the guides. The wire flys are at .028 oz and the minima's are .014 oz. I don't recall who made the flys. Yes, I do realize that this is an "apples to bananas" comparison. It was never meant to be a head to head type of comparison. I was just shocked that I could utilize the minimas (no knots to pass) and save the amount of weight that I did.

Haven't seen specs for the #3 Minima but the #4 with ID of 2.5mm are advertised at .12 grams each.
Compared to single foot #1 Recoil light titanium with ID of 4.75mm and weight of .031 grams

Half the dia and 4 times the weight.

The Minimas are about to get even lighter (although at some point it ceases to make much difference). A titanium frame version is on the way from Pacific Bay.

....................

those will be beautiful!! I will definately be utilizing these!!!

I really wonder if a blind folded person picked up three identical rods, and cast them with the identical reel and line on them - would the person actually be able to feel the weight difference in a rod built with
1. Snake guides,
2. Single foot fly guides
3. Conventional minima guides
4.Recoil guides.

Absolutely there is a slight weight difference in all of these guides.

But, if a person were blindfolded and cast the three identical rods, wrapped with different rods - would a person actually be able to tell the difference.


It might be interesting sometime to have a "blind" casting and feel test for such an experiment.

I know that there is a huge amount of print written on this forum about saving weight, about going smaller and smaller on guides, but would the blind folded person actually be able to tell the difference?
I wonder?

Roger

I build same blank with Fuji Y 20/10/7 then L size 4 for thru tip and with Minima 4 M size 16/8/5 then F size 3 thru tip.
Not blind test but on the water I saw différence, tip more responsive.
Same with Y 25 thru 4.5 VS Minima 20 thrue 3 on another blank.
Just my 0.02 ;-)

Roger,
I recently refined a rod that had been used regularly for the past 15 years.
He wasn't blindfolded but after replacing the tip top and top three guides with light wire Recoils.
The owner stated he could feel the rod response quicken. It went from a rod he thought was slow to his fastest rod.
The guides replaced were standard steel snakes 1 size smaller than the Recoil replacements.
He also added to his casting distance.

The blind test idea is great but somehow I doubt someone will do it.
Accurate measures of CCF would probably give a very good indication of the difference, even if each one would still have to experiment a little to get a *personal* notion of the way a difference of x in CCF *feels*.

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

Laurent,
One of the reasons that I brought up the "Blind test" is that it is easy to theorize that something is going to work better, is going to cast better, is going to give better rod response - but if a person who is fishing blind folded can't feel the difference - is the change that is being done to the rod all that important or even relevant with respect to enjoying a day on the water to catch and either eat or release fish?

Just wondering.

Roger

I agree with you Roger, but sometine I like to put theory on thé water, sometime it work, sometime it didn't work.
But it seems (at least for me) that lighter guide on thé upper section improve the build.
The difference (on setup I listed) I cann feel it.
On thé other side, on common fly rod, the différence betwin, say, Recoil RSFX and PB fly single foot Wire guide is more difficult to see (at least for 90% of flyfisherman).

Eric,
I agree 100% in that it is always interesting to put theory and ideas to test - by implementing the ideas and using them in the real world.

Be safe
Roger

Roger: I'm with you on this.
I wasn't advocating post facto ratiocinations or wishful thinking, but rather CCF measurements. One of the advantages of such measures is that you can communicate them, and they are useful to others.
properly conducted blind tests may also be usefu;, but are rather more complicated to run.

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]