I'm getting ready to do a saltwater fluke rod. I want to do an underwrap, then the usual guide wrap. My question is do most builders do the underwrap and put finish on it before doing the normal guide wrap, or do the do both wraps at the same time and put finish over both. I was thinking of doing both then put finish on, but i'm not sure the finish will get all the way through to the blank to bond with it. I just don't want any problems down the road with guides coming loose. I'm also concidering using nylon threat which would require a CP. Any help and thoughts on the subject would be helpful.

The epoxy doesn't need to penetrate all the wraps and bond to the blank. However, if you want to put down the underwrap and then apply a light coat of epoxy to that, go right ahead. It won't hurt a thing.

Since underwraps are mostly unnecessary anyway, try to use the smallest possible thread when making them. This will keep weight to a minimum.

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Jack, I would do underwrap, then color preserver, then wrap the guides and color preserver on top and epoxy the final wrap. i wouldn't epoxy the underwrap first. Others may have a different opinion, but that is mine.

Hillsborough, NJ

Since it's going to be a light inshore rod, i was thinking of using size A thread on both wraps, figured you only need size D on heavy duty rods.

if you prep the guides correctly
Do you really need -Under wraps ???

Bill - willierods.com

do your under wrap and guide wrap at the same time, it is not necessary to color preserve or put finish on the underwrap before wrapping on the guides. I have done at least 100 rods this way & never had a problem. Just make sure you use a good soaking coat of the CP and let it thorouly dry. A second lighter coat of CP will insure a no bleed finish. Doing every thing in size A will look great.

Underwraps are not at all necessary, but if you do use them, here's one more trick that will help things - wrap the overwrap in the opposite direction that you wrapped the underwrap. This helps the top layer of thread stay out of the grooves of the bottom layer. Although, with either epoxy or CP laid down on the underwrap, it won't be a big deal.

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Hi Jack,
I always put a coat of cp on any underwraps as it makes it easier to pack and stops the overbind from going into the grooves. Finish isn't necessary as your adding extra weight for no purpose.
You can get away with just an overbind if it's a light rod but do what suits you best.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

No Bill, i don't really need the underwraps, but the friend i'm building it for likes the looks. Thanks to everyone for you help, will look over everyone's suggestions and see what i'll do. At least now i have several starting points. Thanks again guys. Jack

If you want to save weight, you can easily do false under wraps and still have the look.

Example of a false under wrap...

[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2012 11:55PM by Jay Lancaster.

On rods with large double foot guides that will get alot of flexing an underwrap will be a plus and will actually help protect the blank from chaffing. If you use size 20 double foot guides or bigger you can test by tying the guide foot on do not epoxy and flex the rod to is max serval times and you will see how the guide feet move on the blank. Not so pronounced on a freshly epoxied blank but one with some use where the epoxy cracks (and we all have those in our rod lockers) it might make a difference. This is of course if the rod catches alot of fish and is under heavy use. I have tested the ability of epoxy to penetrate three layers of thread. One underwrap size A and two overwraps size D and have found newly mixed thin epoxy will penetrate to the blank and under the guide foot. The thread acts like a wick.

Never use color preserver as it coats the threads and prevents them from wicking the epoxy and prevents a proper bond to the blank. It will also cause black thread to appear slightly milky. Have never noticed a color change using any other color, just black.

I use an old gloss black blank and wrap 10 times then epoxy over to create a color match stick for every thread I buy wether it be NCP or regular nylon. I do this just for the purpose of getting the true color of the thread after epoxy is applied. works great for matching to rod blanks and knowing what the finished product will look like. Make one and you will never regret it. I use model paint and a caligraphy (I think i spelled that correct) pen to put the color number on it for later reference.

Last, weight is never an issue in a rod that will require underwraps. Trust me on this. I have gone to the trouble of weighing every inch of thread on fly rods to weighing the total epoxy used on rods and even weighing over 500 guides from every manufacture and have proved that all discussions of weight are just not true.

Example: All the epoxy on a 9ft 6wt fly rod from the winding check to the tip weighs less than the tip top and the fist snake guide (any brand). This is assuming three coats of flexcoat lite. Since two thirds of the epoxy is applied from the winding check to the stripper guides, which has no affect on the rod what so ever, you can come to the same conclusion that I have and say that the epoxy on the upper half of the rod weighs less than the tip top. So unless you are building an ultra light or fly rod guide weight, thread and the weight of epoxy just doesnt affect anything with respect to performance.

Just my actual somewhat scientific conclusion to the topics discussed in this thread.