A bit curious about those of you who tried the KR (H) high frame spinning set ups. Love to hear your comments now that it has been out for a while. .

And wondering if the microwave guide simple takes the KR's idea to the final conclusion and tame it almost instantly at the first butt guide.

Mo

I built both set ups on the same blank, test cast them side by side, and took 60 frame/second photos of the line passing through both guides. HEre are the pics of the line going through a MW Stripper: [www.facebook.com] Click next 100 times and you can seee the line as it's being cast. I didn't post the FUji pics. The main difference was the line was as close to straight as possible with the MW, and with the Fuji there were some waves in the line between the stripper and next 2 guides until it hit the size 5. In short your last sentence is accurate.

Mo,
I’ve been using the “rapid choke system” (similar to the “KR”) and recently purchased a set of Microwaves to try out. I found them impressive and they worked at least as well as the “rapid choke”. The biggest drawback for me is that you have to buy the complete set and I only used the butt guide (double ring) and the high 6mm. The $42 bucks is a bit pricy just to get 2 guides, but I wanted to give them a try. I used them with Fuji Alconites (4’s) for the rest of the guide train which I found to be compatible cosmetically. I would imagine that the chrome finished Microwaves would be similarly compatible to the Fuji titaniums that I normally use and I may retrofit a few of my “primary” spinning rods when/if the Microwaves are sold individually.

I think the one MW guide should be sold by itself This way builders can use what they want as running guides and make there own drivetrain
I am sure it will work with many other guides

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Mo,

I tried the KR H’s and I thought they worked but not well for all line types/sizes. The same can be said for many guide trains though. In our testing it was the only guide train that was close to the efficiency of the MicroWave sets we were developing. Most likely because the both focus on taming line as quickly as possible.

As to your query about the MWG being the final conclusion of the KR idea. It does bypass the use of multiple guide sizes in a rapid choke theory into an immediate line control system. The only thing I would point out is that rapid choke or whatever terminology would be used, has been practiced for many years by custom rod builders. Many have used smaller stripping guides with many variations of guide size (even placement) combinations in order to manage line quickly and efficiently. And, in fact Doug Hannon worked for near a decade independently to arrive at the present day MicroWave accomplishment. Not to mention that Castaway Graphite Rods introduced an efficient line control finished rod well over 2 years ago. Answering your question, yes the MicroWave guides could be considered the end product of an evolution of sorts and certainly the most efficient line control guide train available. (you can’t tame line any quicker than in one guide)

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

I thank every one in there efforts to bring us this guide
But if I want to use different runners I think builders should have the choice to use what they want and not have to buy the whole set
There have already posts of builders that have bought the set and used other guides with the butt guide

Bill - willierods.com

Angler's Workshop has the MicroWave Nanolite Ring [www.anglersworkshop.com] and the MicroWave Duralite Ring [www.anglersworkshop.com] in stock. Not to mention a huge selection of Fuji guides [www.anglersworkshop.com].

Yes, to those who posted that they would prefer individual guides, that's my sentiments too. This feels very much like a manufacturer having a patent on a particular market, and then forcing everyone to purchase an entire set just to get the patented part of the product. Nothing personal Darrin, just that it is not meeting the needs of a number of builders apparently. I've building my own version of quick reduction guides other guides for my own use. Still experimenting.

Thanks for all the responses.

Mo

I too thought they were too similar in casting to justify the $20 difference in the guide train.

When i started building rods I found it was cheaper to build your own
Now - forget about it - We don't need any extra costs

Did not mean to open the can of worms Guess I am not alone

Bill - willierods.com

Is the NCMW5 a running guide?

Yes the NCMW5 is the “running guide” that comes with the set. I substituted Fuji 4mm’s which are much smaller/lighter. I normally use 3.5’s for “runners, but the 4mm alconites were a better aesthetic match for the Nanolite MW’s. I stated earlier that I only used the butt guide (double ring) and the tall 6mm from the MW Set, but I did, in fact, use one of the NCMW5’s as the 3rd guide. It’s been a few weeks since I installed them and my memory is often affected after even one good night’s sleep….or building several different rod configurations. At least I feel somewhat mollified that the cost is slightly more amortized by using 3 of the 9 guides supplied with the Microwave Set.
I think that Amtak may feel that there had been some confusion as to which guides should be used with the Microwave guide after it was first introduced on the market. By offering the “set”, it would facilitate easier set ups for many rod builders. Their might have been some tiny profit considerations as well (snicker). I suspect that they will eventually be available individually.

In addtion, my asumption is they wanted teh set up to actually work the way they tested it, using their spacing and sizes and to eliminate a gazillion questions. The one thing we know fromreading the forums is builders are really good at screwing things up, selling an entire set with guide spacing elimintes that chance.

My overvalued 2cents: the complete system allows folks of all skill levels to follow a preset pattern which will give them results pretty close to the best layout they can get with the blank they are building on.
Many builders do not get the best out of their blanks.
Selling the MW individually would then expose its performance to the competence of the builder.

Of course you can always buy the size 30 MW from Castaway at Swampland and add whatever running guides you like( i like size 5 minima 4 tiCh Fly on salt sticks with that MW).

Posts about builders messing things up is a good point
Forgot about Swampland selling them

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Bill/Mo/Jim,

I didn’t reply to this subject because I wanted to give Mo my opinion on his original questions. Even with my obvious affiliation, I am still a rod builder at heart.

I hear you on the sales of individual parts and anticipated this early on. Mo, I don’t take your comment personally and you are somewhat correct.

From the business side of things, a technology is patented and in order to make it better, it is incorporated into an entire system which makes it better functionally as well as financially. The financial part is purely business, patents must be paid for either initial filing or in this case licensing. Next, recouping costs on development which is the time, materials, tooling, etc. then bringing the new product to market. No matter how good the product is, it requires marketing in many forms such as print advertising, packaging, hangtags, decals, web sites, prototyping, sampling, testing, creative-campaigning and the extremely important costly trade shows in the U.S., Europe & in China. All told (and I’d never bring up to my partners the total costs involved) but we are out of pocket well into six figure territory before even going to market. This doesn’t even consider ongoing costs of paying our agreement fees, continued marketing or stocking the war chest with funds to vigorously defend patent rights around the globe. In actuality considering our margins, profit will be slim on this product line. (especially if you notice the aggressive retail pricing)

I am sharing the business side aspect with you all hoping that you might understand that American Tackle has invested in the success of this venture in order to produce the best possible product we are able to produce and that you as a consumer deserve. We greatly value everyone that uses our components and want to ensure that our products work the way we market them. This system is not intended to focus mainly on profits (although that is the point of any business venture), we have focused our resources to complete a system that delivers performance. In order to insure that performance we have eliminated the guess work and theories to provide an entire system that delivers when used as directed. We encourage experimentation and feedback about the system but what we introduced and offer (as a set) is a system that will work for the custom rod builder as well as everyone that puts a fishing rod in their hand. Billy and Lou have hit the nail on the head here.

From my personal rod building point of view, I can understand wanting to change combinations around to my preference because I do. But on the other hand, if it works well as is, then why change it? I understand the reduced weight aspect but for the amount you’d reduce weight going from 5mm to 4mm rings, you could remove a guide or use one coat of epoxy, shorten the thread wraps or use thread-less wraps. Might save up to a gram here or there…..

Joel,

I did some looking to see where the MWG sets come in around the similar KR-H 9 guide set. (although I already did this while doing my homework prior to pricing the MicroWvae guides)

Duralite @ 32.48 vs. Alconite @ 29.20

Nanolite @ 41.93 vs. SiC @ 54.94.



Respectfully,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the one MW guide should be sold by itself
> This way builders can use what they want as
> running guides and make there own drivetrain
> I am sure it will work with many other guides

I will second this motion!!

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Swampland does sell the butt guide and the first transition guide - Cheaper
then use what ever ya want as runners Your choice
You will have to play with the guide train If price is a factor

Bill - willierods.com

I believe that's a heavier 30/8 and not the newer 20/6.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2012 09:46PM by jim spooner.

Your right I wonder if they can get the 20/6

Bill - willierods.com