building a 11.5 ft 7wt rod and am going to use a tamer guide total of 3 guides. I know the distance from the butt to stripper guide but do not know the distance to the last tamer, the one closest to the tip.I know these are approximate numbers but it will give me a start.( 2) When over sizing the tip top if Im running out with 6s should the tip top be 1or 2 sizes larger? for larger rods does the size increase anymore than 2 thanks for your help.

Maryann,
I try to make things simple when I lay out guides on a rod.

I just start from the tip and start to bend the rod from the tip. Whenever the blank bends enough to require a guide, I place a guide. If the blank does not bend, I don't put a guide.

It is a very simplistic way to do it, but it always works very well.

Take care
Roger

One easy way to do it is get a spacing chart I use St Croix a lot of times Place the guides on 11.5 ft would maybe need 13 guides
I generally start at 4 - 4.5 from the tip

A static test will tell you where to move them after using the chart

never herd of a Tamer guide on the tip of any rod

They are always on the butt After placing guides on and static testing Cast it Then place another guide about in the middle of the butt or stripper guide and next guide Test cast with and without to see if it is needed

Bill - willierods.com

Thats correct Bill Im refering to the tamer guide closest to the tip top, not at the tiptop.

A "tamer" guide is simply a guide, one size smaller than the stripping guide, located about 4 inches past the stripper guide. The next guide is located at whatever it's normal location would be, not considering the tamer guide.

Set up your guides as usual, without a tamer guide, then once you have everything set, go back and add the tamer. Try it with and without. You'll quickly know if it does you any good. If it does, wrap it in place. If not, leave it and and proceed to wrap the other guides. Re-spacing will not be required in either event.

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Tom would please on my second question. When over sizing the tip top if Im running out with 6s should the tip top be 1or 2 sizes larger? for larger rods does the size increase anymore than 2 thanks for your help.

I have no idea why you would want a larger tiptop on the rod. What are you trying to accomplish? If it will go through a #6 guide, it will go through a #6 tiptop.

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Tom, if im not mistaken in another post you recommended a larger tip top for the knot to slide thru the tip top easier.Sorry if I misunderstood.

I don't think so. If the knot would go through the tiptop but not the next guide, it hasn't done you much good.

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Never heard of a "tamer" before the tip top, and I build lots of fly rods.

Phil ,ist the tamer guide that is the one closest to the stripper not before the tip top, first the stripper then the next one is the tamer the tamer would be closer to the tiptop than the stripper sorry for the confusion

Maryann, the only rods I build are standard fly, switch and spey. Laying out the guides for spacing and sizing is very easy. My method is just like Rogers and Bills. First figure out the ring size that you will want to use.
Figure out the ring size you need for your stripper guide. 7wt, 11.5 ft, maybe go with a 12 or 16, either will work. If your worried about icing occurring then choose the 16. If you are going to use 2 more double frame guides next, both can be one size smaller than the stripper.
Rest of your running guides, size 6 will work just fine, could go smaller. most important thing here is to get the smallest opening guide that will pass your knots and connections and also the icing thing. Size the tip top the same size as the opening in the running guides, most saltwater or large loop tip tops for fly rods are pretty close to a size 6 or 5 running guide, depending on the brand. Object is to create a straight line path and allow for all connections to pass thru without any hang ups.

Total number of guides, with a 11.5ft rod, 11 or 12 will probably be required. You can use a standard spacing chart for any brand of blank that is the same length, tape all the guides on, run a line thru them and put some tension on the blank, adjust each guide up or down the blank so the line follows the curve of the blank. Pretty easy to build a jig that will hold the blank and allow you to place some tension on the blank to get an arc into the blank so you can observe the line path.

Tamer guides, I have experimented with them on several rods, really never made a difference as far as casting performance, especially on blanks that have a "fast" taper to them. Couple of slow action or full flex tapers it did improve the casting distance a bit. Not quite sure if others have found the same thing with respect to the rod taper or if it is just something in my casting style where the "tamer" made an improvement on the slow tapered rods. If you think you need a tamer guide, you'll have to experiment with the placement of it. Build the rod out without one. Make some casts with the rod, then tape a "tamer" guide just up from your first guide, make some more casts, moving the "tamer" guide up or down with respect to the first guide and see what happens. If you really think it is necessary it really isn't going to hurt or ruin the rod, it will just add a tad bit of weight to it and might look a bit weird or out of place, but remember its your rod and its a custom rod!
Have fun with the build!

Maryann:

If you are talking about a set up using 3 stripping guides, the only chart I can find for an 11'6" spey rod shows this: From the tip top, 67 3/8", 81", 100 1/2". I have never built a rod this long, so don't have any personal experiance. Just fabout to finish a 9' 5Wt. Quickline fly rod. Used Minima 4 guides for the whole thing. I think it is going to be really nice.

Mike Bradfrod
R.M.B. Fishing Rods
Nampa, Idaho

A fly rod can only have one stripping guide, just as spinning or casting rods can only have one butt guide. The first guide, closest to the reel, is the stripping guide.

You can have more than one ceramic or more than one double foot guide, but only the first one is the stripping guide.

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Sorry Tom. There seems to be a breakdown in the language we use for this. I must just be old, and havn't learned the new stuff. We always called the heavy guides close to the grip stripper guides. On short rods it was 1 stripper, on longer rods it was 2 or 3. My mistake, and I am sorry for adding to the confusion.

Mike Bradfrod
R.M.B. Fishing Rods
Nampa, Idaho

I know what you mean but it's not correct. Some fly fishermen tend to call any double footed ringed guide on a fly rod a stripping guide, but the fact is, a rod can only have one stripper guide. The stripper, or butt guide, is the first one past the reel.

Stripper/butt guide are the same thing. How many butt guides can you have on a rod?

But as long as folks know what you're referring to, it doesn't really matter.

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