I just got a box in from American Tackle containing the new MW guide set they're offering. I'm going to rig up the set on the same blank, handle, reel and line which I used for the earlier tests (not just similar, the same one) I did and will report back on the results a bit later this afternoon. Should be interesting, will certainly be fun.

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just dont let steve cast it...i lost count of how many casting plugs are on your roof..

More than you'll find in any Bass Pro Shop retail store, that's for sure.

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Hello Tom & John.

Now Tom, tolerance, just think if you go up on the roof you could make a mint re-selling the casting plugs.

Keep em tween the buildings!

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Once again I'll preface this by saying that I don't sell guides. I don't receive any royalties on the 27X thing, I do sell advertising to just about all the component companies. I never enter into a test to prove that something does or doesn't work - I enter such things with an objective "let's see what happens" attitude. If something is better in some way, then I'm rooting for it.

Okay, here we go. I put the just arrived American Tackle Microwave 20/6 guide and set on the exact same blank, using the same reel and line as before. I also took the rod back out and tried the NGC for a dozen or so casts just to make sure that current conditions hadn't changed in any way that would prejudice the earlier results for or against anything I was doing today. All seemed to be equal. I'm a pretty decent caster - my casting lane is 10 feet wide, I only used about a foot and a half of it, right in the middle. The results are as follows:

Reel - Quantum Kinetic 20
Line - 8 lb test Shakespeare Red Cast (mono)
Blank - St. Croix SCIV S66MLF

Best 5 casts (rounded down to nearest foot):
NGC (27X): 145ft, 144ft, 143ft, 141ft, 141ft.
MW 30/8: 145ft, 143ft, 143ft, 142ft, 141ft.
MW 20/6: 144ft, 142ft, 142ft, 141ft, 140ft.

Average all 35 casts (rounded down to nearest foot):
NGC (27X): 140ft.
MW 30/8: 140ft.
MW 20/6: 140ft.

My gut tells me that this is simply as far as I can throw 3/8th ounce with this particular outfit, no matter what good guide system I employ. In other words, they're all equally good and none impedes the casting distance any more than another. I guess you could say that each one of these systems allows the blank to max out in terms of what it's capable of doing. "That's all there is and there ain't no more."

I did not get any additional distance with the new MW set up over the earlier NGC or original MW system. But I didn't lose anything either. And that may be the most important thing learned here - Any time you can do the same job, with less "stuff", less weight, less time, etc., etc., there is a gain nonetheless. System for system, the MW with the 20/6 butt guide weighs less (ceramic to ceramic set), balances closer to the reel, is easier and therefore quicker to set up, and due to having fewer tall guides along the rod, should be less prone to damage from rod lockers, tubes, etc. In fact I'm not sure I'd bother marketing these along the lines of obtain greater casting distance. To me there were enough additional advantages which are as much or more important than distance that I think I'd be pushing those attributes a lot harder.

As I told Darrin on the phone a bit ago, if I see guys posting here and there that they can't get any additional distance, I'll believe them. I couldn't either (not with this particular set up anyway). But if I see someone post that they actually lost distance (real distance, not a foot or two) I'm going to have a hard time believing that. I didn't see any area where this system came up short. It works every bit as well as the others do. I found absolutely nothing about this system to object to. And, as mentioned above, they do offer some irrefutable advantages in terms of weight, balance, durability, etc.

If I have time later this week I'm going to retest with braid.

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Thank you for taking the time to do that testing Tom it gives me confidence to keep doing what i am doing.I will at some stage
build up a rod with the MWs to check them out just hope they make some up in titanium frames soon.Be very interested to see
your results with the braid.By the way what is the rating of the blank you used.


cheers

Ray Balmforth
Figtree
NSW
Australia

TOm, I agree with the major benefit of the microwaves is not the distance gained, its' everything else. I've been talking to a number of people abotu these, via e-mail, phone, in person and on FB the past couple of weeks, and the thing I like best about them is what is mentioned least, lol.

As far as Titanium goes, unless somoene figures out how to weld titanium, I don't think it's gonna happen. THAt's why there aren't any titanium tops.

It tops out with 3/8th ounce.

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Hi Tom,
Glad to see you find that distance isn't everything as other factors come into play. Thanks for posting those results, it's appreciated. Will have to give them a try. The Expo looks like a good place to pick some up.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Billy,
Done every day

[www.weldingtipsandtricks.com]

DANG!
It's sad when the only thing friends remember of one's accomplishments is how many 29 cent casting plugs have bee lost

"My gut tells me that this is simply as far as I can throw 3/8th ounce with this particular outfit"
Bet I can get it higher

PS: I'll bring the ladder next time I come by.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 09:07PM by Steve Gardner.

Sorry, I didn't clarify which direction those feet represented. I defer to your superior ability to throw for height.

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When it comes to structure fishing, some people prefer to throw into the heart of it.
I prefer to throw over it

Tom, just curious. Did you set the guide spacing as listed on their site or did you use your own spacing? Also, how did the cast "feel" to you as compared to the NGC? Was either one noticeably smoother feeling in hour opinion? As you mentioned, I'm not trying to gain distance as there are much more important factors in my opinion. The weight taken off of the tip seems to me to be one of the biggest advantages.

I started with the spacing as suggested on their website. Due to no single spacing being optimum for all reels, lines, handle lengths, etc., I tweaked it a bit until I got all I could. In this instance I had to move the butt guide a little further from the reel and that seemed to do the trick. Because you only have a couple guides to move around, it's a pretty easy system to fine tune.

The feel or sound between the two systems was about the same although the MW system balances a little bit further back towards the reel.

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Joel Smith Wrote:
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> The weight taken off of the tip seems to
> me to be one of the biggest advantages.

You can do that with traditional guides. There is NO reason, other than aesthetics, to use so many sizes of guides. Just for grins and giggles, I have built rods using traditional guides for the first 2-3 guides and nothing but running guides after that ... they worked just fine. Try it yourself.

Hello Steve.

You'll need more than just a ladder you'll need big pockets or maybe a nap-sack to put all the plugs in?

By the way they were Bass Proshop at $1.50 ea.(or $.95 in quantity)!!

Run into a lot of snags do you?

Over is threw!

Bushy, bushy, bushy!!

Take it easy Steve!

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Hi all,

I must say that I was surprised by Tom’s findings. Tom had a good point which was that it was as good as anything else he’s tried and certainly was no worse. Not necessarily what I was hoping for though, so when I learned of this I went right back to our guys who helped worked in testing/development to see how we had different results. Here are some points that were made during my inquiry:

Tom’s testing used monofilament. Initially we were using mono based on Doug’s original testing. Now that braid is becoming more popular than ever and I wanted a braid oriented version. Consequently we focused on braided lines and the majority of testing went in that direction. They noted that our distance results were based primarily on the braid comparisons.

Although we out cast every guide train/layout we tested the total increases were not huge. Especially when considered against the casts we were making, many were in excess of 150’. They pointed out that I was looking to come out on top during the testing to verify marketing claims, not achieving a measured improvement goal. This was true…

There are too many variables to test. They pointed out that we used basic rods, lines & reels built in standard configurations. Although we switched up several different blanks, lines etc. there were different lengths of improvement depending on blank, lines etc. Nothing was standard.

They brought up Tom’s point of maxing out blanks with guide trains that performing well, maybe that’s the case…

Then the final remarks were “Thought we weren’t marketing this on distance anyway, you said we would offer a complete system with multiple benefits!” They’re right, the goal from the start was to market efficiency due to “Line Control”. (I know I am driving these guys crazy here but I am so thankful for their assistance;)

I’ll say this for sure it’s incredibly smooth casting and I am convinced it’s improved my accuracy. And, I’ll still say “It’s the most efficient guide system on the planet!” Hope you all give them a try.

It’s too funny about the casting plugs, we buy them in bulk and our trees around here look like we are decorating for Christmas.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Unless they drastically changed my original design there is no welding in the Microwave frame, it is made from a single piece stamping. So Titanium should only be a problem of tweaking the tooling since different metals behave differently in the molds.

BTW Titanium welds fantastically, it is just expensive to do it. Look up pictures of Ladybird motorcycle exhaust to see some real Titanium artwork.

Tom’s results are very close to what I got when I built the matching Microwave and NGC rods with the first prototypes and brought to the show 2 years ago. I got a little more distance with the MW but I think it was because of less weight from the #4 running guides on it and #6 on the NGC I built them that way since that is what most people were still using back then.