Two of us took the two rods out to the field today (soccer field) --- identical rod blanks; identical handle configuration; identical line (new 185 yards of 40lb power pro); identical reel (today) Thunnis 4000; terminal weights (2 oz, 4 oz & 5oz each) - 10 casts each/ wt (60 per rod total). I got some "inexplicable" distance comparisons - that I think can be explained by the spacing I used on the MW guide lay out - the second and third guide (from the tip) on the MW rod were not correctly "tuned" for the lighter terminal weight for the rod in question... that is the rod blank rated at 1-6 oz NEEDED the 4 oz weight(or better) to properly load with the lighter MW guide train.

On average
27x @ 2oz = 81 yards
27x @ 4 oz = 110 yards
27x @ 5 oz = 131 yards

MW @ 2oz = 77 yards
MW @ 4 oz = 123 yards
MW @ 5 oz = 141 yards

CAVEAT: These casts were done really laying into the rods (tournament / beach style) - nothing I would ever necessarily do in a fishing situation - so, effectively in a fishing situation on a boat the distances are IMO virtually irrelevant.

Now I plan on eliminating the 30MM I put in front of the 20/6mm MW guide and wrapping on a 30/8 from Castaway and "fiddling" with the placement of the 30/8 Castaway.

thanks Ken, a very appreciated input

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

YOu basically concluded that your tests were inconclusive, lol.

Ken,
Your tests verified the statements earlier by Mr. Kirkman that if you have a well designed guide train, 27X or microwave, or other - that the average casting distance is roughly equal for each of the different guide setups.

So, that is the good news.

But, if you want to go lighter and have a less tiring rod, the microwave system is a good way to go for guide design.

REW

Nice to see actual data with controls. Very good work.

Ken: am I right in assuming that when you tested the rods with your friend, each of you cast BOTH rods then you pooled the results?

(sorry, I had to ask ^_^)

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

Laurent =
Yes, that is correct we each cast both rods (and he repeatedly got more distance).


Billy,
Yes, you are correct - if for no other reason than I'd never use either rod to cast that far from a boat (under the original fishing circumstances). But (and perhaps this is pure conjecture) I think that the MW set up was "smoother" - no wind knots and "straighter" down field but that would be like trying to compare Sanchez's and Flacco's football deliveries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 08:10AM by Ken Preston.

HAving conducted 2 test casting events where we recorded distances, I can tell you that making a high number of casts is a waste of time. YOu can throw 5 casts and toss the high & low out and get the same number as if you throw 10 casts. I'm sure if you look at your data you'll see that same trend. I was fortunate to have several casters, so they all threw different distances with each of the rods, some guys casted far, some not so much. The general trend was the same, they all cast a particular rod further than the others, it was pretty consistant. The only caveat was that each of them stated as they cast more and more they got into a groove and started to cast better as they threw more.

So no matter what you do, the results will never be 100% perfect. The $30-40 that the set of guides cost is worth it for every builder curious to go out and buy one and see if they like it. REally, $30-40 shouldn't be generating so many questions, just get them and answer your own questions. I know that's a foreign concept to a lot of people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 08:20AM by Billy Vivona.

Billy =
Our observations / test results are very much the same (distance/averaging). 5 casts or 10 casts each after tossing out the high & low the average is within 2 yards (ie: not significant). Your second observation is also correct - first casts tended to be more erratic - not down the center of the field; looser loops (higher arc) more line left or right of the final impact point.

I'm also in 100% agreement - the MW guide SET being sold @ around $40 - $42 is in line with the cost of most any other set of guides. Anyone who wants to check them out simply needs to buy a set / wrap them on and go fishing.

well, good people, that's without the arm and legs you have to depart with to have anything shipped this side of the pond, plus the very nasty feeling you may get if you were to realize that this MW set doesn't work the way you want on this particularly cool blank.
very few pros on the forum I moderate, but plenty of rod builders eager to learn something about the stuff. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask a couple of questions in order to build at least some confidence the whole enterprise may be worth the stake.
or maybe it is a foreign concept?
^_^

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

Laurent,

I'm not sure what anyone else here can tell you. Without having your exact blank, reel, line, etc., there is no way they can give you a definite answer as to whether or not the system is going to work to your personal liking. You may be expecting a little bit too much.

One thing you should be able to surmise from these posts, is that not a single person who has actually tried the MW has come back and stated something along the lines of "It was terrible. I lost distance." Everything that has been posted seems to indicate that the MW system works at least as well as anything else, and in the experience of a few, seemed a little bit better.

At this point all you can really do if you're seriously interested is take a chance and try a set, even if it costs you an arm and a leg to have it shipped over. I do have one of the newer type MW butt guides on the way here now and when it arrives I plan to duplicate my earlier test with the original 30/8 guide. I'll be happy to report back although this still may fall short of exactly what you're wanting to know for your particular use.

................

I haven’t built more than a few “normal” inshore rods in the last couple of years … they have almost all been using the original MicroWave system paired with "tangle free" running guides. I have done hundreds of hours of testing, on and off the water. I have even placed prototype rods in the hands of a few highly accomplished anglers and received feedback for evaluation.

There are a few things that I really like about the original MicroWave system ... 1) The line oscillation gets knocked down quickly, this seems to very minimally benefit distance; 2) The recovery and balance are improved, since the vast majority of the guide weight is in the lower quadrant of the line path. The end result was that the rod felt "more refined" for lack of a better term; 3) Fewer guide sizes to stock - just the Microwave set and running guides and; 4) Faster wrap, layout and final adjustment time (running guides are easy) and; 4) The system offered a unique look with marketing benefits that didn't sacrifice performance.

I won't be purchasing the new system. One reason is that they are packaging running guides with them, I use 7mm running guides. I will be moving to a more traditional guide layout system when I exhaust my supply of original MW guides.

IMO, the original guide works well – but not for adding distance. I have no idea on the performance of the new guide system and I am not going to venture a guess as to any possible improvements.

Hi guys,

Very interesting Ken, you are a true rod builder in spirit and form. Thank you for the results, looks like the MicroWave guides outcast 2 out of 3 lure weights. This is impressive particularly since you didn’t really use the system as it was designed. By that I mean these guides were intended for lighter rods, casting lighter weights and to be used as a complete set with specific spacing. This said, custom rod building wouldn’t be “custom” without some creativity and adaptation. We’ll soon have other versions you can put to your testing….

Another point brought up here is the line control. This is the real plus in the system which is why it’s referred to as the “MicroWave Line Control System”.

Laurent, I know it is tough to accept testimony alone, especially from the company that is marketing the product but you’ll soon see believers on a global basis. Some of the highest demand has come from abroad. The few that have had a chance to try them at trade shows or through our European sales guy have been the first to invest in this system. All I can say is that I hope you try them and soon our international distributors will have their inventory which may make access easier for you.

Jim, please don’t count them out until you’ve tried them. They are phenomenal and they are now all I use for inshore rods.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Darrin -
You already know and understand that custom rod builders just have to play around with anything that has to do with rod building. And as I previously noted I did modify the original design/concept/layout on this rod AND the rod is probably heavier / stouter than these guides were originally intended for. Having said that I will be refining (diddling) with the layout even more - stripping off the 30 I put on between the reel and microwave guide - or MORE LIKELY I will simply build rod on the same blank with modified spacing. I realized I was "pushing the envelope" from the outset. The goal now is to put out a rod series for the fishing application I described in some detail below.

All the best and thank you for bringing more products to the rod building table

Ken

Tom: I just wanted to point out that it is indeed interesting to do thorough tests and publish them, and interesting also to read them and even to ask if there's more. I just want to gather as much info as I can before giving it a go, knowing full well that "go test it yourself" is the best advice anyone could give.

Darrin: yes, we hopefully will see the MW available locally. I certainly will try them at some point next year, if not before.

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

Hello Ken.

Thanks for the info, info is always nice to have =(o-; )

Tight Lines and Straight Casting.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Darrin,

If I understood Jim correctly, I believe he's reacting to the fact that you are forcing anyone who wants to try the microwave to purchase an ENTIRE SET of guides. I personally do feel the same way as Jim. I personally do not like the runners that comes with the microwave as it does not fit my needs and do not see the need to spend north of $40 each time I want to build with just one microwave guide.

Hope you do not mind my comment.

Mo

Darrin Heim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Jim, please don’t count them out until you’ve
> tried them. They are phenomenal and they are now
> all I use for inshore rods.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Darrin Heim
> American Tackle Company



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2012 07:15AM by Mo Yang.

Hi Mo,

Yes, I guess I see your point. We do however want to sell the entire set to complete the “system”. We tried to make it as simple and easy as possible. We are working on other additions which might have the running guides you require. The original stripping guide remains available individually as well.

I don’t mid the comments at all, thank you for participating.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Thanks Darrin,

I see that you are responding to each email specifically. Thanks!

Actually I often build with a combination of two different brands of guides, depending on needs. I cam considering using as many at three different types as I build for myself variants of the microwave type setup. In short, none of my running guides would be the microwave simply because I prefer lighter units and smaller diameter rings. Not a big deal as I don't represent even a small share of the market you are going after. I am sure the microwave will work just as well wit other running guides. The key to the system really does seem to be your stripping and the next guide. After that, virtually any reasonable running guides should produce the same effect.

Mo

Are there any other running guides which are tangle free? I know the FUji TLDBSG guides are, and I know the MW running guides are. Any others?