All my materials arrived yesterday for my first build (7' MHF St Croix SC5 bass casting rod). I have got the handle and reel seat reamed out so that they fit in the desired location but now have a couple of questions.
1. The butt end of the cork handle, approximately half of the cork, is loose on the blank, the cork ID is greater than the blank OD. I am thinking I should build up some tape arbors in a couple of locations to snug this part of the handle up, am I on the right track?

2. Same kind of situation for the reel seat. This is a Fuji seat with exposed blank and the front half or so of the seat ID is larger than the blank OD where it sit on the blank. Again I was thinking a couple of tape arbors to snug things up but would like to confirm.

Is the tape a good solution or should I be using other means? The white urethane arbor that came with the handle kit will not fit inside of the Fuji seat (I bought the Fuji seat in addition to a CRB handle kit). Could I sand down the OD of this arbor to get it to fit inside or just go with tape? I want to do the what will provide the most solid setup.

3. Where the front of the rear handle meets up with the rear of the seat, the cork is slightly larger in OD than the seat. I'm thinking some light sanding to get the cork down to the seat and a smooth transition? If so what grit should I go with?

Use thread to shim. Spiral it up the blank. You have several sizes to choose from. If need be, you can go up and then back down to take up more space. Coat with epoxy and install grip. This is better and more durable method for shimming loose grip components.

Solid foam arbors are always good choices. As a custom builder, you'll learn to size and shape these items to fit. Sure, go right ahead and reduce the arbor for a perfect fit in the seat. That's exactly how to do it, although most such arbors come in sizes to fit popular seats.

You can sand the cork to achieve the fit of your liking. I'd start with 150 and follow with 220 to smooth things back out, then perhaps a light going over with 320 to finish the job.

.............

Thanks Tom!
For the thread for shimming the handle, all I have right now is size A. Could I use thicker sewing type thread?

Yes. Even small cord if that's what it takes. Makes the spirals close - about 1/8th inch between threads.

............

Yes. Even small cord if that's what it takes. Makes the spirals close - about 1/8th inch between threads.

You may then find that the handle needs to be reamed (taper reamed) a little to fit. that's fine too. Get it close and then you sort of turn and thread the grip onto the epoxy embedded thread.

............

Hi Mark,
One thing to watch out for when glueing on an exposed seat is to get rid of the epoxy out of the exposed area and keep a watch on it until it gets firm as it's likely to bleed out. Ver ydifficult to get it out of that area once it's dry.
Also if you only need a thin shim for your seat better to go with masking tape as it's difficult to get a thin concentric foam arbor. Just make sure the tape is completely covered with epoxy to keep the water out.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Reelseat: with the exposed seat, it's Ideal to get the seat exactly the size of the blank, where it'll be. In your case with the seat being too big now, the best option I've found is to install the rear grip, then run a coat of epoxy on out the bare blank, where the seat will sit. Let it dry and dry-fit the seat. If need be, add more coats of epoxy to build up the blank. This is the best way to keep from having a messy exposed area. Good Luck
Jeff

The reel seat area in front of the open exposed blank portion is the only part that is too big. The reamer never touched that part of the seat. I lucked out for my first try and got the seat fitting just right from the exposed portion towards the butt...just need to snug up the front part. I am going to try sanding down the urethane arbor for the fix. I like the idea of a solid piece of urethane in lieu of the tape. Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated!

HMMM...upon further inspection, the urethane arbor will not work as it is basically the same OD as the blank OD at the spot it needs to be sitting. Also, I don't believe I can do a tape arbor as the rear portion of the seat will not pass over the arbor. Soooo, I'm guessing that I need to put the seat into position with epoxy on the rear portion and then use a syringe to fill the void all around the front of the seat?

To clarify, this is a Fuji ECSM exposed reel seat.

Just for giggles, I will give a tape arbor a try to see if it will work.

Mark;
I would follow Mr. Kirkman's advice!

The absolute last thing I would do is to use tape!
1. it can break down over time, especially if moisture gets to it, allowing for the handle to become loose

2. being basically a pliable material it will rob some of the rods sensitivity. not a problem in some applications but in bass fishing it can make a difference to the rods performance. especially in slack line techniques, where the need for sensitivity is at a premium.

Hi Mark,
I respect Mr Kirkman's and Mr Gardner's opinion greatly but I don't see another way out of the problem. I've used tape for a lot of years in saltwater and have never had an issue. If you use some 1/8 tape and as much epoxy as possible to fill up the small gap you should be good. You might get away with one or two wraps. I doubt you could even come close to measuring the loss in sensitivity. You will get some epoxy bleeding out and it will need careful monitoring and cleaning. Syringes and epoxy don't go well together unless you have a big needle and it probably won't fit in the gap. Get the epoxy on the blank and inside the seat and carefully put it in position, you will get a fair bit getting pushed down the blank so stop before it gets into position and remove as much as you can before final positioning. Your going to have a fair bit of epoxy to clean up at the junction of the seat and rear grip and in front of the seat so pay particular attention to getting rid of the excess. Stand the rod vertically and make sure the gap is filled and check after each time you do any cleaning. I had to do a similar thing with a single handed baitcaster and it turned out fine. Saltwater use for that one.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Buy a Flex Coat foam arbor, the same size as the reel seat, cut it lengthwise to fit in the end of the reel seat that is too big. Don't go so deep into the reel seat that you get into the exposed area. I usually cut it about the same length as the run of nut threads on the barrel of the seat. Glue the arbor it into the reel seat first. Let it dry completely. Now, just ream the short section of foam to fit the blank at the point where you need it. Careful, it reams real easy. You can even hand ream it with a rattail file if you need to.

Greg Marshall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Buy a Flex Coat foam arbor, the same size as the
> reel seat, cut it lengthwise to fit in the end of
> the reel seat that is too big. Don't go so deep
> into the reel seat that you get into the exposed
> area. I usually cut it about the same length as
> the run of nut threads on the barrel of the seat.
> Glue the arbor it into the reel seat first. Let
> it dry completely. Now, just ream the short
> section of foam to fit the blank at the point
> where you need it. Careful, it reams real easy.
> You can even hand ream it with a rattail file if
> you need to.

Greg,
While tossing / turning trying to get asleep last night I thought of this same scenario! How thin can i get the foam arbor before it falls apart? I estimate that I have less than 1/8" but more than 1/16" gap all the way around between the blank and the seat. The arbor that came with the handle kit appears to be a flex coat arbor. I have sanded it down to fit inside the seat. Tonight I will epoxy it in place and tomorrow give it a working over with a small file to try and get it to fit.

Col Chaseling,
I tried putting a tape arbor in last night but as I suspected, there is not enough clearance to allow the rear part of the seat to slide past the arbor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2012 08:01AM by Mark Fink.

If you have any scrap blanks make your own reamers They work better then a file IMHO

If the gap is small enought between the blank and sear and handle 1/4" tape should work On the seat three maybe four I try to keep them about 4" apart
Perp the blank for both and inside of the seat for a good grip I usually figure if more then 10 turns of tape Use an arbor

Bill - willierods.com

Mark -
For the handle - follow Tom's instructions using thread. This will more evenly build up the gap than spaced tape arbors which can leave the grip unsupported - really a bad idea for cork as it can crack and split.

For the reel seat you can check out your local auto supply store for a variety of epoxy putties used to fill auto body repairs. You don't need fiberglass auto body repair but rather metal repair which comes as a two part black / grey compound that you kneed together like dough. Set the reel seat in place with rod bod or other epoxy of your choice. Check that the fore grip end is concentric with the rod blank OR (better) that the exposed area of the blank is flush with the reel seat - no gap. If necessary push a wooden shim in the upper opening to hold the reel seat firmly in place. Mix up a small portion of the steel auto body filler and push it down into the gap at the top of the reel seat & allow all the epoxy to set up. The black/grey will set up much faster (around 45 minutes). I've done this in the past and had great success - the putty-like consistency makes it easy to use and easy to control

if the seat is loose Blank though you should have another that fits correctly
Next time you get parts get them from the same supplier so they can Fit the parts to the blank

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the seat is loose Blank though you should have
> another that fits correctly
> Next time you get parts get them from the same
> supplier so they can Fit the parts to the blank


Bill,
I got all the materials thru Mudhole and they matched the seat to the blank. A wee bit of reaming of the rear part of the seat was required to get the seat to sit at the desired location on the blank and it is a great fit from the front portion of exposed blank area to the rear of the seat. Its the very front part of the seat, under the hood / threaded area that is a loose fit. This trouble area is as it came, no reaming of this part of the seat. I have to believe that I am not the first to have this issue with this type of seat. I'm sure this isn't really a problem, I just need to approach it properly. :>)
I think in the future, I will try the two piece seats, in my mind's eye it seems the two piece would be easier to install and maybe even shave some weight.

Ken Preston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark -
> For the handle - follow Tom's instructions using
> thread. This will more evenly build up the gap
> than spaced tape arbors which can leave the grip
> unsupported - really a bad idea for cork as it can
> crack and split.
>
> For the reel seat you can check out your local
> auto supply store for a variety of epoxy putties
> used to fill auto body repairs. You don't need
> fiberglass auto body repair but rather metal
> repair which comes as a two part black / grey
> compound that you kneed together like dough.
> Set the reel seat in place with rod bod or other
> epoxy of your choice. Check that the fore grip
> end is concentric with the rod blank OR (better)
> that the exposed area of the blank is flush with
> the reel seat - no gap. If necessary push a
> wooden shim in the upper opening to hold the reel
> seat firmly in place. Mix up a small portion of
> the steel auto body filler and push it down into
> the gap at the top of the reel seat & allow all
> the epoxy to set up. The black/grey will set up
> much faster (around 45 minutes). I've done this
> in the past and had great success - the putty-like
> consistency makes it easy to use and easy to
> control

Thanks Ken for the auto epoxy idea, if the foam arbor approach fails I will look into this.

Mark,
Once you've got the arbor glued in, you can ream it down to almost nothing, as matter of fact, beyond nothing. Remember there's a tiny layer of epoxy between the od of the arbor and the id of the reel seat. With the porosity of the arbor, the epoxy will penetrate somewhat. At some point, as you ream more and more, the foam will become almost non existent and you'll be reaming epoxy. This thin layer of epoxy then becomes your shim. Ream too much and you get back into the reel seat and you're forced with simply starting over with another arbor. I think you'll be fine taking it down as thin as you need.

Greg Marshall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
> Once you've got the arbor glued in, you can ream
> it down to almost nothing, as matter of fact,
> beyond nothing. Remember there's a tiny layer of
> epoxy between the od of the arbor and the id of
> the reel seat. With the porosity of the arbor,
> the epoxy will penetrate somewhat. At some point,
> as you ream more and more, the foam will become
> almost non existent and you'll be reaming epoxy.
> This thin layer of epoxy then becomes your shim.
> Ream too much and you get back into the reel seat
> and you're forced with simply starting over with
> another arbor. I think you'll be fine taking it
> down as thin as you need.

Thanks Greg! This is what I was hoping to confirm.

Many thanks again to all for helping this newb builder along!!