Just curious. Any of you guys notice a trend with folks coming to you wanting rods to fish drag settings that no human being can handle under the conditions they want to fish them? Stuff like "I need an eight foot rod to fish for shark off my 17 foot boat with my new lever drag reel spooled with 130 JB hollow fishing fifty pounds of drag"?

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Yes. Yesterday "I just bought a new Avet Raptor dual drag & I want to fish standup at max drag for bluefin tuna. Can you make me an 8' CalStar Grafighter 800XH for this?" This guy is probably 150lbs and 5' 6" tall.

He could do it with a Super Seeker. ;-)

It's an Avet Raptor HX ... max drag is 50lb. I'm sure the blank would take it ... It's the fisherman that's a little unrealistic

I suppose I should let this topic develop a bit but Jim is baiting us Ken. Okay I acknowledge you bring a point to the table. If one fishes a slow enough, highly parabolic blank. maybe they can reduce the lever arm enough to allow these higher drag settings.

A 800XH doesn't qualify though and I wonder what you guys that build for a living do. It is easy for me to challenge someone to deadlift the weight they say they want to fish as I don't care about sales, just making a friend happy. If any of you do this what do you find people can really handle? I'm finding ranges in the 20 to 30 something pound range (for extended periods).

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Hi Russ,
I've seen guys nearly pulled out of the boat using 30lb game gear, feet definitely off the floor. If you've got a good parabolic blank that bends right down to the foregrip you might get away with it otherwise I think some guys are having themselves on over the drag pressure they can fish for any length of time and Bluefin and big Sharks are not going to be a five minute fight. Break out the harness!!! I'm not a big guy but I'm flat out fishing standup 50lb with 17lb of drag for any length, definitely need a harness.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

[www.youtube.com]

The original intent of what has become known as "stand-up" fishing, was to allow a fishermen to engage in what is basically a tug of war with fish that are smaller and/or less powerful than the fisherman. When the sport was in its infancy, it was considered common knowledge that it was foolhardy to use the technique on fish which are larger or more powerful than the angler. Of course, more than a few wanted to push the envelope and see just how large a fish they could whip on stand-up gear. Some did amazing things. A few have been injured or worse.

Once you move past about 50lb line and are personally connected to the harness/rod-reel outfit, you're in danger. Just something to discuss with any customer who wants this type gear for very large and powerful fish.

..............

We endure a world increasingly of extremes: black or white, this or that, no compromises. Some anglers insist upon using one-weight fly rods to pursue trout of five pounds and more. They "play" a fish to a death of exhaustion and then release it (??!) under the delusion they are practicing catch and release. At the opposite extreme are anglers who fantasize they can simply crank in the biggest fish that swims with heavy enough line and heavy enough drag. [BTW: many pelagic fish literally fight until they die, no matter what tackle is used.]
What has happened to the popularity of "The Golden Mean," a reasoned reaction to the readily observed realities of life?

I find the biggest dissconnect between drag settings and line class. Used to be one set the drag at 25% of the line class. With todays lever drag reels I think one can go 33%. Then factor in that most lines actual breaking strength is much higher than the label states. Still if one plays within those rules and knows what they can safely fish all is well.

The problem seems to be the new guys that get all worked up over drag specs. They seem to feel like they have to have a reel that has 50 pounds of drag and anything less in a lower quality reel. They ask really silly questions like can I take a reel that holds 200 yards of 20 mono and fish it with a 50# topshot with 25 pounds of drag.

Personally I don't like to fish over 30# class with normal tackle. I also feel 50# class with harness on stand up gear is as far as I'm willing to go. But the internet is full of youtube videos with guys claiming to be fishing fifty pounds of drag on their spinning rods with vertical jigging blanks. Maybe they are but I ain't buying it till I see and measure it in person.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russ,

I have seen my brother get yanked to the transom fighting a shark with a 9/0 and a 6' stand-up when he was a tenderfoot. Heavy drag settings and long rods give the fish alot of leverage on a fisherman.

Best thing to do is explain to your friend that that reel is designed for use in a fighting chair, and should not be used for stand-up fishing. I would'nt even recomend that line for stand-up fishing in a boat. 50 to 80 # mono is all one needs, 9/0 or 900H for the 50# and 12/0 for 80# mono. Need to keep this stuff simple and old school; far to easy for someone to drown if inex'perenced fisherman try to reinvent the wheel. A TLD 25 and 30# mono will take most sharks.

Land-based people have some different needs at times when it comes to line numbers because of abrasion, but the stand-up fishing style is still the same. Crazy drag numbers and unreal rod lenghts are just that-crazy and unreal... 6' rods are by far the most popular because of the leverage issues fighting heavy fish. As you know, shorter rods (5' to 5'6") with a harness that is low down in tush and lower back afford you a more compact stance and you can use higher drag settings-30#''s is still a big number even at that.

When trolling and stand-up fishing from a boat with outboards, I like a 6'6" or 7' rod to help keep the line clear of the engine(s). At 52 years of age, I don't have the stamina to fish with high drag number for long; 20#s and I am limp noodle in 30 minutes. Myself, I am quite happy seeing a fish drag 300+ yards of 50# mono around the ocean; I don't have to work so hard and I can save my energy to use getting the line back.

Chuck

Pound Test - line breaks at or above listed weight.

Pount Class - line breaks at or below listed weight.

............

I ciould see the guys dragging big planers at high speed using the big drag but some of the other stuff is bragging/marketing material. When I fly fish for tarpon I typically set my drag between 6-10lbs. Landed plenty of fish over 100lbs while staying in my shoes.

Mr Thomas,
That's exactly what can happen even to experienced fishos. Heavy drag is a definite NO No!! for newcomers. I've had two guys nearly pulled out of my boat by a big GT and a monster Bull Dolphin. I was also fishing with my mate in his boat and a 50lb Yellowtail Kingfish almost dunked him on 50lb gear. You need to be careful and workout what you can handle BEFORE you go chasing big fish.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

When I have someone that approaches me wanting to fish unrealistic drag settings, I also offer them an Angler's Envy hockey helmet and life vest. That normally starts the conversation and brings them back to reality.

Kevin Knox
ANGLER'S ENVY CUSTOM RODS
QUEEN ANNE, MD 21657
#_#_#_#_#
www.anglersenvy.com

Phil,
when i was younger i have to admit i did some of those thing you speak about until i saw all the fish i was releasing died.
8 lb test for Tiger fish on the zambezi and joining the 10 to 1 club ( 100 # fish on , 10# class line).
You sure can do it but it kills the fish every time.
The other extreme:crazy standup, is just as dangerous, but to the fisherman.
There is a cliff area in South Africa (its called Hangklip google it sometime) where you can attach yourself in the best spots to the rocks with pitons(as in rock clibing) and cast at passing schools of yellowtail and tuna with surf sticks. Or just stand on the ledges as i have seen some do.
That takes Crazy Stand Up to Crazy Hang On i think.

I don't have big tuna and such in my area so I don't need to fish extreme drag settings. What do y'all feel is a realistic max drag setting for normal gear (non standup) without harness? What type of drag settings are these guys using when catching tuna on poppers in the northeast? What about the long range tuna crowd on the west coast? They are getting into yellow fin tuna over the 200# mark.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Hi Russ,
For mono 1/3 of the breaking strain is fine. You can go up to maybe 1/2 if there is problems but remember to back it off before the fish gets near the boat or your risking a bust off if the fish takes a hard run. With braid usually go a bit more as their breaking strains are usually under estimated.. For anything over 30lb a harness is required by me if it goes over 60 minutes. 50lb the harness goes on straight away. Not too many big Yellowfin around here anymore but the Bluefin have made a big comeback in the last few years. One 130kg fish taken in the last week but they are out past the shelf which is a bit too far for me these days in my boat. Wish the days of 100kg Yellowfin within 10 miles was around again. On their way back up the coast in late autumn they were within casting distance from the rocks.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Is fishing with 30+ #s, 40+ #s or even 50#s easy to do? No. Can it be done by an experienced angler? Of course. How does one become an experienced angler? Go fishing. So can it be done by inexperienced anglers? Yes. Hopefully with supervision of someone experienced. Bluefin Tuna fishing requires this amount of drag. If you want to release them with a chance of surviving then you want them to the boat in a reasonable amount of time. For me that is under half an hour. If you are planning on keeping that fish then the quicker the better as well; better quality of meat since less time for acid to develop.

I too have an Avet HX Raptor. It has 130# spectra on it. The rod is a 5'2" Jigging Master Three Kings Special H custom built spiral. You have to have the right tools for the fishing you are doing. A TLD15 on an Ugly Stik isn't going to cut it.

I would suggest asking plenty of follow up questions to determine the customer's skill level and intended use. Someone could come to you and ask for a rod to handle 100 pounds of drag. Your first impression may to laugh in their face. But when you find out a 130 is going on it to fish giant BFT from the gunnel rodholders and you just lost out on building four $1,000 rods you will be kicking yourself.

Tom it isn't my intention to "laugh in anyone's face" nor do I build rods for money. I am here to gain knowledge. Perhaps you are willing to help me?

Let us take your example. Someone wants rods and reels to fish a hundred pounds of drag for giant BFT. What blanks would you consider? What reels would you consider? What line would you consider? What hooks would you consider?

Despite fifty years of fishing experience I wouldn't be able to answer. As I mentioned above we don't have big tuna in my area.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.