Hi gents,
For those toying with Madeira thread for guide wraps here are the results of some testing I did. Tried to keep everything as standard as I could such as thread length, knots etc. Don't own a tensile tester or a line testing machine so I had to make do with my drag scales. I've only got three spools of Gudebrod thread so I did a number of tests on each spool. The Madeira and Pacbay have got a test on different spools.

Madeira Pacbay "a" thread Gudebrod "a" thread

1.1 0.9 1.0 1
1.2 1.0 1.0 1
1.1 1.0 0.9 1
1.2 1.0 0.8 1
1.1 * 1.0 0.7 2
1.0 0.9 0.7 2
1.2 * 1.1 0.7 2
1.2 * 1.1 * 1.2 3
1.2 1.0 1.3 3
0.9 1.0 1.2 * 3

Avg 1.12kg 1.0kg 0.95kg

* Broke on knot

Appologies if everythings not lined up but the "TAB" function doesn't work on the forum.
The results are even enough to give a good comparison and surprisingly Gudebrod showed the biggest variation from spool to spool.
A lot of people don't like using cp on guide wraps but I've been doing it for 35 years and haven't had any problems.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Some say Madeira stretches too much to trust for guide wraps..
I don't know the validity of this claim.
I wonder if it's true.
It's not the same issue as tensile strength.

Col Chaseling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi gents,
> For those toying with Madeira thread for guide
> wraps here are the results of some testing I did.
> Tried to keep everything as standard as I could
> such as thread length, knots etc. Don't own a
> tensile tester or a line testing machine so I had
> to make do with my drag scales. I've only got
> three spools of Gudebrod thread so I did a number
> of tests on each spool. The Madeira and Pacbay
> have got a test on different spools.
>
> Madeira Pacbay "a" thread
> Gudebrod "a" thread
>
> 1.1 0.9
> 1.0 1
> 1.2 1.0
> 1.0 1
> 1.1 1.0
> 0.9 1
> 1.2 1.0
> 0.8 1
> 1.1 * 1.0
> 0.7 2
> 1.0 0.9
> 0.7 2
> 1.2 * 1.1
> 0.7 2
> 1.2 * 1.1 *
> 1.2 3
> 1.2 1.0
> 1.3 3
> 0.9 1.0
> 1.2 * 3
>
> Avg 1.12kg 1.0kg
> 0.95kg
>
> * Broke on knot
>
> Appologies if everythings not lined up but the
> "TAB" function doesn't work on the forum.
> The results are even enough to give a good
> comparison and surprisingly Gudebrod showed the
> biggest variation from spool to spool.
> A lot of people don't like using cp on guide
> wraps but I've been doing it for 35 years and
> haven't had any problems.
Thanks for that Col, interesting reading. Must admit i don't like to use cp anymore on guide wraps, but with the amazing choice of vibrant colours madeira make, their wouldn't be much point in using it on guide wraps without cp unless you wanted a translucent appearence.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

Hi Gents,
In response to David Gilberg's post I did another test. Took a 12 inch piece of Madeira and stretched it over a tape measure until it broke. It got to 15 inches. A 12 inch piece of Gudebrod got to 14 inches. The extra stretch is the reason I use about 1/4 more thread tension with Madeira than I used to use. After it's coated with epoxy it's not going to stretch much.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

i have been using mederia thread on guide wraps for a while i never had a problem with it all i do is put cp n finish on it i even jig tuna fish on a calstar 700H grafiter still never had a issue with maderia holding the guides

Many years ago some Fellow rod builders where discussing the same thing "the Strength of thread".
What I want you to do now is very simple.
take you favorite Fresh water rod with reel, pull the line through the guides, knot the end to an object and bend the rod as much as you can, now have a friend pull the line away from the guides with a little fish scale, you will be surprised how little the pressure is.
I have been using every thread brand there is, more likely I have been using Madeira Threads or Ackerman threads the longest (about 20 years) out of my 38 years of building. I never had guides get loose, the factor is your wrapping skills, has to be tight together and with a good tension and will have no problems.
Best Regards to all Mark Crouse- The Munich rod man

I really appreciate the responses to the stretching issue.
I'll be using Madeira for guide wraps from now on without any hesitation.
This opens the door to many more color options.

Hi David,
The stories about Madeira not being strong enough or being too stretchy probably originated from a few builders who tried it for guide wraps and had failures. They probably didn't understand the stretch issue and how to overcome it. Rather than look for a proper method it's easier to say "the thread is no good for guide wraps". Whenever you stray away from the norm you are likely to have failures. Some testing or perserverance to find the best method can often overcome any issues. How many guys built the perfect rod on their first attempt?

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Mark and Col hit it pretty good!! All it takes is for a couple people to say Madeira (or anything else) isn't suitable for something and many just accept that as gospel without questioning it. As far as stretch goes, I would doubt that any thread with a coat of epoxy on it has the ability to stretch. I use probably 95% Madeira and other Polyester threads for my guide wraps with CP and have NEVER had a guide pull loose although I have had guide frames break. In my opinion, which thread is strongest is completely irrelevant. What's important is whether it's strong enough to do the job

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Think that's true, i read that it wasn't any good for guide wraps,and like a lot of other builders you just presume it's no good. Well, having read these excellant reports, i'm certainly going to start using it, if only for the great range of colours madeira offer.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2012 02:00PM by Steve Mcleod.

G'day Steve I also use madeira thread for guide wraps & have done for few years . As a Christmas present for my son I made him a "Jewie Pole" (It's really a crowbar) used for skull dragging the Jewies out of their hole & this rod gets some serious workouts almost every night, with the largest fish to date weighing 27KG (59.5lb) & over 3/4 hour to land .All guides are double wrapped with madeira & not any showing signs of deterioration. I always use 2 coats of cp & have never had any problems.

Regards Baz

Bundeena
NSW Australia

Hi Baz,
That's a serious Jewie, love to find one like that off the beach!!! That's given everything a good workout, including your son. There's quite a few builders using Madeira for guide wraps and they wouldn't be doing it if they had guides pulling out. Goes to show that if you do it properly you won't have a problem.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

G'Day Col certainly gave my son the run around .He said he did about 50 laps of the north wall in Port Macquarie. He reconds any more like that he'l have arms like "Popeye"

Regards Baz

Bundeena
NSW Australia

Barry Chapman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> G'day Steve I also use madeira thread for guide
> wraps & have done for few years . As a Christmas
> present for my son I made him a "Jewie Pole"
> (It's really a crowbar) used for skull dragging
> the Jewies out of their hole & this rod gets some
> serious workouts almost every night, with the
> largest fish to date weighing 27KG (59.5lb) & over
> 3/4 hour to land .All guides are double wrapped
> with madeira & not any showing signs of
> deterioration. I always use 2 coats of cp & have
> never had any problems.
Wow! now that's what you call a thread test! proof enough, cheers Barry.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)