What's the lightest line weight fly rod you would or have used ceramic fly guides on?

Anyone built 3, 4, or 5 wt. rods with ceramic fly's?

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!

Cannot see a reason to do it! Fly lines do not wear on guides, and on the light weights you are rarely into the backing.

I have built "3-weights" with ceramic guides.

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I imagine it helps when getting the rod loaded when you are only casting the leader and with very short casts...I can't see it helping with distance casts however...though I suppose with the reduced friction, you might see the line shoot further...and most "5" weights are underrated so people can cast further with them anyway...there are pluses and minuses to everything...

On a rod that light, I can't see it.

Casts are not that far, the fish when caught are small, and the ceramic guides are generally heavier than light snakes or single foots.

In lighter rods, I like the REC single foots. they are very light and nice.

I agree with Phil that I've never seen guide wear on a 3, 4 or 5 wt fly rod. Ceramics are just not needed.

Drew

I use my "3-weight" for making fairly long casts - 60 to 70 feet. Those I used to build such rods for also used these (9 footers) for making casts that were certainly much longer than just "casting the leader." Not sure why the assumption about short casts was made. Marc didn't specify.

A set of Titanium ceramics, properly sized, do not weight that much more than snake guides and have only one foot to wrap and finish. If I built a new one today, however, I'd use Minima guides on it.

Having said that, ceramics rarely add any distance to a cast due to "decreased line friction." There is very little friction between the line and guides on a cast.

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With any other type of blank you have a casting weight and a power, or suggested line rating. One can find a blank that will cast a given weight in a range of powers.

We aren't given that same info for fly rod blanks. Before I started playing around with fly rods I had this concept that a line weight equaled power. I suppose it does but I also feel like it doesn't have to.

When I consider using ceramic guides the compelling reason would be for use with fish capable of long fast runs. I suppose most don't see a 3 weight as being used to catch such fish. Recently, on a lark, I tried a 6 wt line on an spinning rod built on a HS1023F blank. IIRC it is rated 12-25#. I have caught dolphin, tuna, and amberjack on it and I consider all of those fish capable of runs worthy of ceramic guides. The rod was a little difficult to use as a fly rod but did quite well. A sixty foot cast was no problem and it would certainly do better if built as a fly rod. I'd imagine my little HS9000 could load with a 4 wt line. Bottom line is, with the right blank, casting a suitable fly, I see no reason why a fly line weight needs to equate to power nor type of fish being caught. With all that in mind my decision to use a certain guide would more about the fish I was after than the weight of the fly line. In my waters there are certainly hard fighting fish that would strike streamer/clouser type flys that could be casted on quite light lines.

Now if they just made a nine foot HS9000 I could test my theroy and see if a 4 weight fly rod could catch a sailfish;)

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

A line weight number on a rod doesn't indicate how much power the rod has. If it did, all "5-weight" rods would have the same power. Obviously as you have noticed, they don't.

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I have done it on a 2 and a 4 weight... love them both.

If the guides do not determine or cause significant friction then they don't affect casting distance. Since lighter vs heavier weight does affect casting distance, it would seem that the lightest adequate guides would be the ones for the job. I don't know of any guide, even a minima that is as light as a REC single foot (or even a steel light wire single foot). I don't understand how the use of a ceramic guide in a light rod can be justified unless you just like how it looks-which actually is an OK reason.

Now in a heavy rod, used to catch strong and long running fish, the advantages of ceramic guides are more apparent. The smooth play out of line under load is something you can readily feel, particularly when playing the fish on the reel. This would seem to be their key advantage.

Disclaimer: I am rebuilding an 8wt SCV rod right now with Fuji Titanium KT single foots for the running guides. I had a different brand of titanium/ceramic running guides on the rod previously, but had trouble with them bending. So I have nothing against ceramic guides on a fly rod, per se. I am just advocating for a lighter set up on a lighter rod as posed in the original question.

Drew.

Ceramics reduce line wear, make the rod quieter (Iine stripping, etc.) smooth line drag pay-out and almost never need replacement. That's their game.

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I don't like the foot prep you need to do in order to get the size down where it doesn't overhang the blank width on the smaller weight fly rods, just my preference. I am not sure how to much line wear from the guides occurs on the lighter weight fly rods, say #3wt and less-hard to measure. My personal lines usually lose performance with dirt or the occaisional boot trauma. On bigger sw fly rods, I love a ceramic tip as most of the line stress from a running fish is directed there.

Fly lines can and do wear snakes and single foot wires, but this usually arises from casting dirty lines. Quite right about not seeing backing on lighter rods, unless you do some crazy flyfishing. My current addiction is urban milkfish on 4 - 6 wts. You get to see a lot of backing on the bigger stamp of fish!

Russell

Line does have weight Just as a lure weight is need to load a casting or spinning rod you need proper line weight to load that spinning rod

Try going up in line weight maybe 9 or 10 Wt A simple way to check is put the line say the 3 over 16
3/16's lure weight What lure weight is that blank listed as

Then go for sailfish LOL

Bill - willierods.com

Bill maybe I didn't say things well.

Lets consider sailfish. A big one is 100 pounds. Normal ones are 50-75 pounds. They can be taken with as light of tackle as 350 yards of 12# test on a good spinning reel. Of course you can use a 30# class trolling outfit as well.

Now If someone was going to pick a fly rod they would likely look at a 10 weight as the minimum required. Maybe a real sporting type would consider an 8 weight.

Now I have a hot shot rod that will easily fish the required 350 yards of 15-20# line required to catch a sail. That same rod seems to easily cast a 6 weight fly line. I have an even lighter hot shot rod that could fish 12# and "maybe" handle a sail. I bet it could cast a 4 weight line just fine.

Those hot shot rods have an interesting blend of a strong butt section with light tips that will cast the lightest offerings. I'm not sure how hard they can be pushed but my light one has been reported as recently catching a 65# cobia. I'd consider that a stronger fish than a sail.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Hay Just jocking Gee

Bill - willierods.com

For my own use, I use ceramics on my lighter rods. A 4 wt is still a pretty good casting machine. I have used ceramic all the way. . On very light 3 and 4 wt rods I like 3 or so recoil guides at the top, either a recoil top or a titaniium ceramic, and ceramic the rest of the way down. On some of the area tailwaters you have the opportunity to catch a rather large fish on a 3 wt in very clear water with long casts. Have not tried the micro guides yet. Distance is not the reason I like the ceramic. I like the way they feel when shooting line at short distances and feeding line to mend and playing the fish.I like the way they hold the line off the rod for shooting a little line in the backcast. Distance seems much more technique than guide limited. If the ceramics get too heavy they probably hurt max distance.. Is it "worth it" economically speaking? Probably not. If you are selling rods the light ceramics are an awful large expense and might not add enough advanges for many anglers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2012 03:53PM by Bill Moschler.

A blank works At It's Best with no guides on it

Now when guides are added you add weight The rod has to Handle this weight
The ability for the blank to Perform Go back to Straight it slows down the action

Anything below 7 - 8 weight I will only use single foot Hard Chrome wire guides

Bill - willierods.com