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Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 05:56PM

Even as a relative newcomer, there are a lot of resources online and elsewhere to determine proper guide spacing once you know the size guides that you are using. As for selecting proper guide sizes, and other than asking for suggestions from more experienced builders, it seems that you need to have a selection of guides in different sizes to actually figure it out. For example, I have a vintage Fenwick 7' spinning rod to refinish for a friend. I know I want to replace the 4 double foot wire guides that are on there now, probably with a greater number of single foot guides - since it is a very flexible, very light rod. What would be a reasonable number of guides to buy, and in what sizes, in order to have enough to layout properly? Thanks, Steven

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 06:37PM

What line How light And what fish will he be going after

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 06:41PM

10 lbs, striped bass................

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 06:56PM

Here is a starting point
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 07:18PM

Bill, I have read that article and many others like it on how to layout the guides. In order to set it up, though, you need to have a selection of guides in various sizes. My question is what is a decent selection of size guides to buy in order to complete the layout?

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 07:35PM

I would think from the Concept guides the cheapest from say 30 to jeez 10 or 8 which will be to your chocker
Then you will have to see the size that you knots flow thought 6 to 3 or 2's

AFTER YOU SET UP YOUR GUIDES - YOU WILL STILL HAVE TO SEE IF YOU WENT TO SMALL OR IF YOU CAN GO SMALLER

it is all in the testing of the line

On less some one has built the SAME rod and knows the sizes

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Garry Thornton (---.natsow.res.rr.com)
Date: April 11, 2012 07:46PM

If you read the same article I did it said to start with the diameter of the reel spool.
The butt guide shouldn't be less than 1/2 the diameter of the reel spool.

From there, depending on the length of the rod, you basically want a couple of reduction guides then the choker guide...

The choker will be at a spot 27X the diameter of the reel spool in millimeters.

Run some line from the center of the reel spool to that location and adjust your reduction guides so that the line just touches the top of the guide frames.

From the choker you space running guides between 4 and 5 inches apart to reach the tip.

When everything is taped down, static test it and throw a few casts.
Garry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 07:48PM by Garry Thornton.

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 08:00PM

I guess he did not read the article that good

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 08:28PM

I did read it enough to know what the first guide would be, but the blank/reel must dictate the others. I guess the answer is that you have to have a large assortment of guides to determine the layout that works best.

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 08:31PM

And i know that I could get the answer from someone who has built a similar rod. Trying to figure out how to do it myself.

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: John McCleish (---.nrflva.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 09:05PM

I think I know what you're after, Steven. I just went through the same thing with three rods in the last two weeks. I have bought a whole bunch of tip tops in all different sizes. One of each. Then I bought Fuji NOG double foot guides. They seemed to be the cheapest I could find. Everything is done with the new guide concept now so you only need one of each of the reduction guide sizes. I went all the way up to size 40 but that is to build surf rods. If you're only building casting and spinning rods you shouldn't need anything over size 30. Then I bought 10 of NOG 8,7, and 6. That should cover any of your running guide setups. They are easy to hold on the rod with small rubber bands. I got a package of 500 at Dollar Tree for a buck. It's really hard to hold small single foot guides on for testing so use doubles. If you want to put single foot fives or even fours in place of the sixes go right ahead. It won't make a bit of difference. I just made a light spiral wrap rod for my sweetheart at physical rehab and she wanted blue guides. Amtak nano plasma. Those guides and tip cost $62 and I don't have one of those expensive guides left over. I bought Fuji YOG single foots for setting up spinning rods. Check out sponsor list; Anglers Rsrc - Fuji and it will walk you through setting up a spinning rod with the new guide concept. But even that is history. Use the KR Concept instead. You'll be glad you did. Hope the helps. Mac.

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 09:31PM

John McCleish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I know what you're after, Steven. I just
> went through the same thing with three rods in the
> last two weeks. I have bought a whole bunch of
> tip tops in all different sizes. One of each.
> Then I bought Fuji NOG double foot guides. They
> seemed to be the cheapest I could find.
> Everything is done with the new guide concept now
> so you only need one of each of the reduction
> guide sizes. I went all the way up to size 40 but
> that is to build surf rods. If you're only
> building casting and spinning rods you shouldn't
> need anything over size 30. Then I bought 10 of
> NOG 8,7, and 6. That should cover any of your
> running guide setups. They are easy to hold on
> the rod with small rubber bands. I got a package
> of 500 at Dollar Tree for a buck. It's really
> hard to hold small single foot guides on for
> testing so use doubles. If you want to put single
> foot fives or even fours in place of the sixes go
> right ahead. It won't make a bit of difference.
> I just made a light spiral wrap rod for my
> sweetheart at physical rehab and she wanted blue
> guides. Amtak nano plasma. Those guides and tip
> cost $62 and I don't have one of those expensive
> guides left over. I bought Fuji YOG single foots
> for setting up spinning rods. Check out sponsor
> list; Anglers Rsrc - Fuji and it will walk you
> through setting up a spinning rod with the new
> guide concept. But even that is history. Use the
> KR Concept instead. You'll be glad you did. Hope
> the helps. Mac.

Mac - That was exactly the question I had. Thanks, Steven

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 09:38PM

Steven, eventually you will use the guides you buy. Given that ordering one guide ends up costing at least double (due to shipping cots) it pays to have stock on hand.

At the very least you want a complete set (on hand at all times) just for testing reasons. My advice is to pick a decent quality mid-priced guide. Fuji alconite is a reasonable choice. They make a "new guide concept" set for spinning rods up to nine feet (BYAG-309). To that set add the missing size guides so you have one of every size (BYAG-25, 20, and 12 IIRC). Also add several of the small running guides (BLAG-6).

The general rule of thumb is rod length plus one, plus the tip. So eight guides and a tip for your friend's rod. If it wass 7'6" you would round up and use 9 guides. The article referenced will decide size of butt guide and location of stripper. All guides from stripper (running guides) to tip will be the same size as the stripper. Unless you are using old school large spool reels with mono and/or short rods you will have two, maybe three guides (at most) between the choker and butt guide. Say you have the butt guide with two more guides between your choker then all your running guides. In that case you would need five of the BLAG-6 guides.

Assume spool diameter is two inches. 2 times 25.4 (to convert to millimeters) times 0.5 = 25.4 (butt guide is a BYAG-25). 27 times 2 = 54 so the choker guide is located 54 inches from the reel spool's face (lip). Place your first BLAG-6 there, and for ease, space the rest of them at 4 inch intervals out to the tip (they will get moved later). Now take a thin string and run it through the choker, running guides, and tip and put a small split shot on (but too small to bend the rod). Remove the spool off the reel and tape the other end of the thread to the spool shaft. Now take your butt guide, and starting near the spool, slowly slide it forward along the blank until the outside edge of its frame just contacts the thread. The guide should end up in the 18" to 24" range (from spool lip). That was a size 25 so I might try a 16 next (but later you might decide a 12 is best). Again slide it along the blank until its outside frame just touches. Now you had 54 inches from spool lip to choker and assume 22" from lip to butt guide. So 32 inches to go. I'd say it is going to take two guides. So lets put another guide on and slide it forward. You want more distance between the 25 and 16/12 than the 16/12 and next guide. You are probably looking at an 10/8 (and maybe a low frame 8 BYAG-8lj).

It actually takes more time to type this than to do it. Static testing is required to fine tune locations but remember that the butt and choker guide locations are fixed. I'm going to try and paste a link to another post I made on static testing. All of this may sound like a lot of work. I'm going to tell you it is required if you want a rod to perform at its best. Besides, afterwards you will have the confidence to know you have done the best that can be done and you will never have need for a guide spacing chart.

[rodbuilding.org]

IMHO, given the time and labor to rebuild your friends rod, you aren't doing either of you a favor. Better to spend fifty bucks on an MHX blank and end up with two rods.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Steven Tekulsky (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2012 10:13PM

Russell: Thanks for the detailed answer, which is very helpful. If I were going to also have a set of double foot guides for a spinning reels, would the Batson Forecast BVDL guides work as well? steven

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Re: Selecting Guide Sizes
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: April 12, 2012 12:31AM

I would want to know what you were using the rod for. These days I wouldn't use a double foot guide on most spinners short of a vertical jigging rod with a stella reel looking to catch 100 pound plus tuna. The guide frames aren't high enough and they just aren't needed. If I don't use them for saltwater game fish I darn sure wouldn't use them for fresh water applications.

For a conventional rod I like the amtak virtus lites. Alps LXN/MXN are good too. Fuji MSNG are a proven top notch guide.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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