I know the economy is down the Toilet And greed is Good - But

I just checked for the heck of it several suppliers and the price of a simple Flex Coat arbors 3 pack
I found that some are well over a dollar lower then others

Do I have to keep my butt to the Wall ??
Some of them are Off the Wall
I know this is not a million dollar thing But Jee

I also pick up a blank - paid good money - which I have to charge the customer -
No Decal !! Thought I was doing some one a good thing ??

Now what do I do - Do a Google Search and look for prices Who helps the little guy ??

Went to a local shop to check out a reel to make sure it fit the seat Looked at some of the rods there
I can not buy all the bells and Components to build some of them - for the price they are selling for

Just had to Vent -- But this is Nuts

Bill - willierods.com

Service, quality, price ... pick two.

This adage is VERY old and VERY true. Rod building isn't about saving money, far from it. Rod building is about functional art, high performance and/or a myriad of other aspects.

Jim

I just went and checked out a reel seat and found another over a dollar difference ??

Service is nice Knowing your going to get your parts quickly

But -- If all the parts are a lot cheaper - bad enough that customers -- Want It When ????

It is nice to be Loyal - But don't bend me over a table !!!

Bill - willierods.com

I stock the FC arbors and I have Hercules blank decals, along with Fuji & Amtak reel seats, and Fuji & Amtak guides. I also help my customers out with the spacing and building the rod properly for the fishing application they are building the rod for, especailly when the builder has no clue about what the rod is being used for and wants to build it the wrong way.

Not everyone is price centric. My priorities are quality, service and price ... in that order. Each vendor has their own focus, criteria, etc. - some don't want the price shopper as a customer, others do. Find the prices/products that make you happy and move forward.

Hay Billy

I guess you never got my e-mail ?? heck if you had all i needed for this build I would have gotten it all from you
But you said you did not I tried to keep my shipping charges to one charge ?

I was told that Seeker does not come with Decals ??
Service is good - But money is Better
Not happy with the present supplier Then every one wants it - Yesterday

Wait till you read about the two rods I just got in LOL

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 07:16PM by bill boettcher.

I'll take good service over price any day, and good service doesn't come cheap! Think of all the items our vendors need to stock, with many of them turning over slowly. They need to get a return on their investments to stay in business. If you are a price shopper seek and find the supplier that meets those needs, but I wouldn't expect a broad inventory or special services.

IMO nobodies getting rich at any step in this business/hobby!

Bill, I build rods for my hobby. I really in joy doing it. Price is a concern with me, but i will pay top doller for what i want.I only build for me and my friends, I understand if you build rods for a living you have to watch were your money goes.

Live by price, die by price.

"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory." ... Aldo Gucci

I really don't want to sound like I having a dig at you all but I honestly would be worried about a paying an extra dollar here or there if the service is there but just a thought. if you think you are getting ripped off think about this then Australian Dollar is pretty much dollar for dollar with the American dollar, Yet I buy all my rod building parts out of the America because even with the overprice postage the price still come out a lot cheaper if I hold out till I have an order of a couple rods. For example a fuji TKLSG Titanium in America is about $54 here in Australia there $86

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill I got the e-mail, I read the post, I didn't
> answer it. As I said, I was waiting for Amtak
> guides & the orange blocks of foam, which I now
> have in stock. So I took thetime to answer several
> questions, sharing my knowledge. Then I get an
> e-mail telling me that the info I shared was used
> to make the purchase with another company, can you
> help me out some more? Had you waited and placed
> the order with me, I would have helped you out,
> but it's pretty insulting to be expected to go out
> of my way for you because I know that my knowledge
> and services aren't worth a red cent in your eyes.
> The decals - I have Seeker hecules decals for all
> the Hercules blanks, I designed the blanks and I
> have decals, I'll post a photo tomorrow of them.
> My customers request them from time to time and Im
> ale to supply them. I also help them build the rod
> properly for the fishing they are doing, which
> would be explaining why a rodneeds to be a certain
> length.
>
> I don't work for nothing, all I want to do is
> share my knowledge and provide my services to
> other rodbuilders & fishermen so I can pay my
> mortgage and eat.



Touche!

Things cost what they cost, and prices rise over time. Your income probably rises over time too. If I had someone like Billy V. helping me out, I'd buy from him.

If you're building for others, you pass on the costs. If you build as a hobby, well, no hobby is cheap.

I don't know-I doubt I would charge forward and plant the flag of protest on a "hill of foam arbors." Just me, I guess.

Guys,

You are totally lucky by paying only one or two dollars extra, I'm from Europe (Lithuania) and any order nearly doubles in price. If I take blank at 100 $ price from mudhole in addition I pay 25 $ shipping + 21 % value tax (includes shipping and blank price) + custom tax ~ 6% + custom paperwork fees ~10$ + handling and different bank payment fees ~10$. In total that makes 185 $. The same applies to another rod parts as guides, handles etc. The problem is quite limited choice and shallow market in Europe. Anyway Mudhole shipping fees are killing me. I grabbed 4 St. Croix V blanks @ half price on Xmas sale and got for final price nearly same as at local dealer. If you buy one or 5 blank pcs shipping cost stays pretty much same as weight will be additional 2-4 ounce in 3 pounds package, but you pay same 20 % of value. This really stops me ordering expensive top line blanks....

If a buck here or there is keeping you out of the soup line, you've got bigger problems than foam arbors.
Quick, quality, price you can only have 2 pick wisely and live the with results.

Bill,
You are pointing out the very GRIM facts of the world wide economy as it exists today.
For years, folks in the USA have expected to be paid more and more for their services.
Take for example the story of the Detroit Auto Industry - where an unskilled worker was costing the industry $80-$90 per hour to put nuts on bolts in the assembly plants. This is the direct cost of their hourly wage, plus health benefits, plus retirement benefits, plus vacation benefits, plus the cost of maintaining a location for the person to work.

Contrast this with the cost of an off shore unskilled person who puts nuts on a bolt for $5 per day. Period. No vacation, no health benefits, no retirement. Just a flat rate of $5 per day for the persons work. That person, incidentally is very happy to get the $5 per day, since it is likely more than he was earning in a month before this "good" job.

In the rod building industry, the same thing is happening. Some extremely high quality blanks are now being designed and fabricated in off shore design centers and fabrication plants. The folks who work in these plants are likely being paid a few $$ per hour with no fringe benefits. As a result, a very high quality blank is coming from the factory for $1-$2 in quantities of a few thousand or more. Then, the same thing is true of guides and other components where very high quality guides and other components are coming out of factories by the thousands for a few cents each.

These components are now being funneled into factories where wrappers are wrapping high quality blanks with high quality components for $1 per rod. This translates into a very nice rod coming into this country for less than $20-$30. This completed rod goes to the retailer, where the price is doubled and it still is coming in at less than $75.

So, welcome to the worldwide industry of rod building. Every time you pick up a blank or guide, you are competing with a wrapper or builder in an off shore location that is willing to do the identical work for $5 per day.


But, of course, we as rod builders are not alone.
In todays world, students in the USA go to school for about 8 months of the year, by the time you figure in all of the off school days, etc. In contrast, students in China and Japan go to school for 12 months a day. They do not only go to school for 4 or 5 hours a day as is common for many students in the US. Then, at the end of their time, those very bright students - go out and compete with each other for excellent jobs - that in China and Japan pay much less than a comparable job in the US, but give these folks an excellent quality of life due to the cost of living in those countries.

In other words- each time you buy a part, buy a component, you are competing with someone else on the other side of the world - who is willing to work for many times less than what you are willing to work for and yet, do wonderful work and supply wonderful products.

Welcome to the world wide competition of today in every aspect of our lives - both at work and at play.

Have a great day.

Roger

Bill, please feel free to give us a shot on your next order, we're not perfect but we strive to be.

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
407-542-7840
www.GetBitOutdoors.com
www.facebook.com/GetBitOutdoors

Some rodbuilders look forward to receiving packages from their vendor of choice - the mystery of the cash refund taped inside and the bottle of Cajun Hot Sauce soothes the pain of excessive shipping charges.

Seek and Ye Shall Find!

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

I am not one for posting in a rant thread, but Roger W. Hit the one nail that is sound and true to the core. I don't think for a moment that the rod building industry is no different from other industries out there. Mass low cost production has always been the pit fall of any of the smaller counterparts. This is were we have to think outside the box to compete and do it better than those mass producing companies. The fact is we personally build ONE rod to a customers personal wants and needs. This alone is the one factor that beats the competition (lack of a better word here). Quality and assurance that every aspect of the build of our rods is looked at and built with the up most care. The assembly line at a factory can and will miss from time to time or even bypass some of the most important concepts in building of those rods. With that alone we beat the competition....in short I believe we will always have the upper hand in the stand alone builder of this craft. Thank you Rodger W. for the clarification here its an eye opener for some and a reminder for others. Good wraps today folks!

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
[www.facebook.com]
[home.comcast.net]

My recommendation in situations like this is always the same. With all these problems with the suppliers, it looks to me like an opportunity for one of us really sharp rodbuilders, who understand rodbuilders' priorities, to start our own company and fix it once and for all. Let me know when you do it, and I'll give you a try. I don't think I have a chance at managing the business as well as almost all the companies I've done business with.

I personally have had trouble with only one supplier out of probably a dozen I have done business with. I frankly don't know how they stay in business with the constantly changing nature of the business. All of a sudden most of their casting rod guides are obsolete! Or someone comes out with a blank that gets sort of hot on the forum and theirs are all of a sudden cold. Or maybe the market shifts to wooden seats or inserts and all the woven graphite just sits on the shelves.

If you think we have problems, just ask someone in Belize how hard it is to get anything through their corrupt customs. (By the way, if you are going fishing in Belize, contact your guide in advance to see if there are a few things he would like you to take to him. Shipping them is futile. You will be his hero.)

Bill, have you checked out the price of a Winston fly rod blank lately? Talk about through the roof!