For you fly rod guys:

I'm getting into fly fishing and want a rod I can use for steelhead, bass, and light saltwater fish. I've narrowed to a 7 or 8 wt. but am leaning towards an 8 wt.

I want a two piece rod to eliminate joints and increase handling. I'm having a few North Fork Composites built right now (conventional rods) and really like them...I also use Loomis GLX conventional rods...so those are the graphites I like best. But I've never bought a fly rod and know absolutely nothing about how Loomis, NFC, St. Croix (the traditional rod companies) compare to the likes of Sage and Orvis. Loomis is kind of ruled out at this point because I want to do a custom (and they no longer offer blanks) and I like NFC better.

I think I've narrowed the rod selection to a NFC 8 weight SSF-968-IM graphite rod (9'6") 2 piece or an Orvis Zero Gravity Saltwater 2 piece 8 wt. fly blank. Anyone had any experience with these two graphites?
these 2 blanks fall in my price range and are both 2 piece and light weight...I am open to suggestions too....

I'm also curious about the components I would need info on (guide type, size, spacing, etc...even a good light reel seat)?

I've had 4 customs built for me, but never a fly rod. Is there any difference in the way it's built? I've got a builder I would like to use but he has never done fly rods, but his work on my other stuff has been exceptional.

I would be open to trying other builders. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sam Moore
sam150s@hotmail.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 01:38AM by Sam Moore.

Check out the Batson RX-6 or RX-7 2pc blanks. I would say they would be a better blank than either of the ones you mentioned for less money. My fly rods are pretty simple with a basic reel seat and snake guides with a good stripper guide. WIth a fly rod you want to keep it light so just keep that in mind. any good rod builder should do just fine on it.

Kevin Gross
Many men will spend their whole life wondering if they made a difference. Marines dont have that problem - Ronald Regan

Are you looking to build your own, or have it built? 8 wt sounds right.

If it's your first build, build an inexpensive blank. Your first rod will likely be functional, but not that nice.

If you are having it built, then what you get is up to you and your resources.

It sounds like you like top shelf rods. If so, you will do no better than a St Croix SCV, and that's what I would use if cost is no object.

If cost is an issue, I would use a Batson RX8.

Strongly consider a 4 piece rod. I travel a bunch to fly fish and a 4 piece fits *IN* your luggage. Much better and no downsides.

Good luck.

Drew

First of all making it a 2 pc will not give you any better handling. Modern multi piece fly rods perform every bit as well as 1 or 2 piece! Additionally Loomis is also out as they no longer sell blanks.

I build only fly rods and much prefer the Batson line. Having said that your choice of a NFC blank would be a good one, they are a very fine performing fast action blank. The Batson comparable would be the RX7 the RX6 is a more moderate action as well as less $$

Not sure of the size of Steelhead you catch, but if they are on the smaller side, an 8wt might be overkill, as you sure would not need that heavy of a rod for Bass.

As I like to keep my builds light, I use and recommend single foot guides as it reduces the weight by requiring half the number of wraps.

Until you select the blank, your questions re spacing etc cannot be answered.

I will be having the rod built.

I've mainly got it ruled down to the two rods I mentioned in my post b/c the Orvis Zero Gravity sounds like it's a high modulus quality blank and I know the NFC IM material is a nice graphite.

I considered SCV rods, but I always preferred the feel of Loomis and now NFC to St. Croix's graphite. (that's assuming they're similar to conventional tackle in these manufacturers)

I'm looking for more info. on the zero gravity in particular, and the speed action of both blanks and how they compare...I do want a two piece too.

I'm also wanting to know if my builder could do a fly rod build if he has never done one, or if I would be better off finding a builder who has done fly builds?

I am also looking for advice on guides (ie...number of guides, size, material SIC vs snake or recoil etc...) thanks.

Sam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 01:36AM by Sam Moore.

Sam,
Have you cast the Orvis ZG? If you live near an Orvis store, ask them to let you test cast one.

Personally, I would recommend that someone just getting started with fly-casting takes a few lessons. Once you have a proficient casting stroke, you'll have a much better idea of what type of action suits your casting style. You may find that you actually prefer a slower action.

Trying to discern "fast" and "slow" by reading marketing copy is impossible.

Another caveat: higher modulus rods tend to be built with thinner walls, which makes them less resilient to impact. A direct hit from a weighted fly is a very real possibility, especially for someone just starting out. Lower modulus rods tend to be more durable.

Regarding number of guides, 10, plus tip top is probably about right, but static placement and test casting will tell for sure.

Guide size depends on the size of your connections. Loop to loop? Nail Knot? Will the knot have to clear the guides while fighting a fish?

Any competent builder will be able to build a fly rod, even if he has not attempted before, but he and you need to do a little research first.

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

As someone who is looking at building a fly rod for the first time I might suggest using someone with experience. The reel seats and guides are different enough that some knowledge might be helpful.....especially if you are putting out the bucks for a top flight blank.

But yes, any good builder should be able to do it.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Would second the recommendation to cast whatever you can prior to purchasing. The blanks you are looking at are both excellent. I personally am waiting for the 9' version of the 8wt by NFC since I fish from a boat 99% of the time. I have cast and fished the Helios and Zero G from Orvis. If going the Orvis route, would only go the Helios. Super light and a rocket. I would also check out the new Sage ONE blank and then the St. Croix SCV with NSi as possible options. All of these blanks however are tuned more for experienced fly casters. The Batson RX8/RX7 blanks are a nice alternative as they are IMHO a bit slower than the others mentioned which is a good thing for someone just getting into the sport and learning to cast.

Let me second George and Todd in saying that you should get lessons and cast several rods before having one made. Flyrods are different in that details of the rod's action have a big influence on the mechanics of the fly cast and affect the timing needed to cast. A great rod for one person may be mediocre for another. Beginners may progress faster if they start with a rod that is more forgiving of minor mistakes in timing and mechanics. Until you have developed some basic proficiency in casting it is almost impossible to know, let alone describe, what characteristics you want in a rod. It becomes a matter of fitting rod to physique and temprament.

Personally, and I know this may be considered heresy, my first flyrod would be a factory rod, unless I needed to build one myself to get quality within a tight budget. I'd go two one or two quality flyshops and both take some lessons, and have them let you cast several choices in their casting pond. A pro, after watching you learn to cast, can help dramatically in helping select an appropriate action. Then, after fishing that first rod for a season or two you will have a better ability to decribe the changes that you would make to create your perfect rod.

As far as your questions about brands, SAGE has been around since 1980 and is quite well respected. Orvis has been making flyrods for twice as long as St. Croix--having started around the time of the Civil War. Rods were much different then, of course. Also don't forget several top lines that don't make rods other than fly rods. For example, I am very fond of Scott--which doesn't sell blanks, but does offer what seems to be a custom building service. Even if you don't go that way, a little time spend on their "Build your rod" section of their website might show you some the the decisions to be made in building a fly rod. And, certainly don't forget R.L. Winston rods. Certainly more than a few consider Winston to make some of the very finest rods. They do sell some blanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 09:48AM by Steve Schoene.

I would stick with a 9' 8 weight. I find a 9'6" to be more tiring to cast all day.

Re: Orvis.

I don't think they offer any warranty on their blanks, only their factory completed rods. Since they tend to be extremely light and fragile, I would not see this as a good choice for a new fly fisherman.

With regards to specific recommendations (this is just my biased opinion, nothing more!):

Struble U-15 reel seat with fighting butt, and the REC inletted cork

Guides:
Fuji TKWAG 16
Fuji TKWAG 12
REC RSNX size 3 x8 snake guides
Tip of choice--- REC if you want the absolute lightest, I also like Fuji TFAT size 8 which does not look traditional, but performs better.

If your guy isn't a fly rod builder, just tell him to keep the thread colors subtle.

Drew

I'm going to add a vote for what steve, george and Todd are saying.
I build only fly rods. I get customers in all the time who want this rod or that because they like the brand name or it's the latest model.
Do yourself a big favor and go and cast different brands. find a St. Croix, and an Orvis and some others. then chose the one you like and have it built
years ago I took a switch rod casting class. we had the latest model from Orvis a $900 rod and a temple fork. which was abou a third of the price. I learned that for my style of casting the the TFO was a much better rod.

all that being said I build a ton of Batsons and now a few MHX. I would also look at the TFO Aviom series. Dollar for dollar if you are just starting out in fly fishing I would go with one of them until you get the feel for things. I would look more at a 7 wt than an 8. you could always put an 8 wt line on that 7 wt.
For your set up I wold go with single foots especially if you are going to use shooting heads with running line for steelhead.

Hi Sam,

A few things I would consider when buying a rod blank.

First, most fly anglers evolve from rod to rod. By definition, a beginning caster hasn't developed the feel or style to know what rod will perform best for them. Most beginners start with a moderate action more traditional full flex rod because it is easier to feel it load and make good fishing casts. As feel gets developed, you might want to go to a faster rod.

I'd love to sell you an NFC blank, but only if it has the perfect action for your casting and the type of fishing you do.

The CCS system is really helpful here. CCS is great because it lets you find an objective power measurement and action angle of a rod. These two figures can help compare rod blanks and help you find the right rod for the right fishing action. However, there is no substitute for going to your local rod shop and casting a bunch of rods lined with the same line. A number of shops will have this for you. What you will discover is that various labelled eight weights will have a wide disparity of power and action. Try to find the fly shop that doesn't feel stuffy or snobby, most fly folks are good people and happy to help. Once you find the rod style you like, then you can likely find its CCS measurements online and use them to buy the blank you need.

But before you buy, you to determine the type of fishing style you will do most often. You mentioned you want the rod for steelhead, bass and light salt. How you plan on fishing for each fish is as important as your casting style. A rod that will be primarily nymph fished with an indicator and tool fly requires a more power and more moderate action (unless you like to untangle your flies). A more power extra fast action rod will be better for throwing a crab in the salt where you need to work against the wind. Poppers, leeches, mice and other bass offerings require heavier front taper lines for turnover, and also require a more powerful faster actioned rod.

Welcome to fly fishing. I was a steelhead and trout fly guy, and I only owned 14 GLX fly rods a few years ago. That level of addition isn't even that extreme!

Jon
PS I sold most of the GLXs because I have access to our rods.

Jon,

Any prototype 12 weights I can test this spring on some big poons :) ?

Thanks for all the help guys. I actually had a guy respond to me via email and offered a lot information on fly rod building and even offered to help my builder with the build once I decided on a blank.

After several conversations on the phone where he spent hours of his time helping me select the rigfht rod, and the basics of fly fishing, he offered to send me out a few of his beautifully crafted rods out to test.
Which was above and beyond any type of service I expected from a total stranger.
Later that night he called me back and said he had the perfect rod with a soft enough tip for steelhead, and the guts to handle larger bass and saltwater fish. Then he offered to give the rod to me free of charge and help me select the right lines to fish on the rod, and select a reel.
Keep in mind this is a rod worth approx. $600 that he personally built and then just offered to pack it up and donate it to a total stranger.

Now I won't mention his name,because I don't want him getting inundated with emails and calls for free rods. I just wanted to share the story to illustrate how many truly great people there are involved in rod building and the sport of fishing that we all love so much.

I just hope one day I can return the favor to him in any way, or do something this selfless for someone.

Tight lines guys. And thanks to all who offered their advice on this thread.

-Sam Moore


PS--Jon, sorry I won't be getting one of your fly blanks to go along with my 3 other NFC rods...but I'm sure there will be a NFC fly rod in my future. I'm excited to start fly fishing...More vacations to fishing locations, and more time on the water; my girlfriend will be less than thrilled with this...oh well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 10:30PM by Sam Moore.