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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 22, 2011 07:32AM

It shouldn't be hard to measure thread tension with a simple scale, or even a hanging weight system. The thing is, the proper tension for any given rod or guide will vary depending upon a lot of factors. You wouldn't want to wrap a guide on a lightweight, thin-wall graphite blank anywhere nearly as tight as you would a roller guide on an 80lb class trolling blank. I couldn't begin to come up with a system that would state the optimum thread tension for any given rod, not without one heck of a lot of work anyway. Unfortunately, proper thread tension has so many variables that we're stuck with experience being the best teacher.

.................

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: JIM MOWL (---.stat.centurytel.net)
Date: December 22, 2011 08:37AM

Col,
Good information.
Scott,
Didn't mean to hi-jack your post but thread tension affects uniform thread color with or without CP as well.

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: December 22, 2011 09:16AM

Fibers and resin form a composite with physical properties.

That is how blanks are made.

Nylon thread wetted/encapsulated with rod finish form a composite with physical properties.

This composite holds guides in place.

Tension is important - when the finish is applied thread relaxes, in a sense stretches,

Pull testing of guides with only thread in place will not result in the same results with thread and finish composite

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: Scott Kelly (---.mycingular.net)
Date: December 22, 2011 09:18AM

Thanks for all the info!

I filled the tunnels with CP early yesterday and put a coat of finish on late last night with no problem to show.

One reason I always preferred to get epoxy in the tunnel was that I have had the finish crack right there before. The last few rods I did had several guides do this. They were all finished with Thread Master. I went back to Flex Coat with this batch. We'll see how that goes.

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: David Dosser (---.columbus.res.rr.com)
Date: December 22, 2011 10:09AM

I still put epoxy in the tunnels, but I just make sure I have CP in there as well. When I put epoxy in the tunnels, I just go across the back of the foot with a tiny brush. I don't necessarily force a lot of finish in there, just enough to seal the gap so to speak.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: Rick Heil (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: December 22, 2011 02:47PM

JIM MOWL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some years back we performed some pressure
> tests
> > on guides that had been A. wrapped but not
> coated
> > with anything, B. wrapped and coated with CP
> and
> > epoxy, C. wrapped and coated with epoxy only.
> The
> > side pressure limit difference between CP
> wraps
> > coated with CP and without (epoxy only) was
> less
> > than 7%. In other words, using CP does not
> create
> > inherently weak guide wraps.
> >
> > What we found was that as long as something
> formed
> > a "shelf" along the edge of the guide foot, the
> > guide frame would distort before any slippage
> > would occur. This can be done with either CP or
> > epoxy, although being much thinner it takes a
> > great deal more CP to achieve it.
> >
> > My point earlier is simply that it is the
> thread
> > that holds the guide to the rod, not the CP or
> the
> > epoxy, although you are certainly correct that
> > they do tend to stabilize the guide within the
> > thread.
> >
> > ...................
>
> Thanks for the interesting info Tom.
> It leads me to the next question that has been
> beat to death and answers are as vairied as CP
> preferences...how much thread tension, and is
> there such a thing as too tight, other than the
> obvious indications of thread fraying or braking?
> I've heard too tight can cause blank failure,
> tight but still be able to move guides for
> alignment but my ability and their ability to move
> guides is probably different. Different size
> guides give better leverage ect ect.....It may
> sound like splitting hairs but I have pondered
> getting an inch pound torque wrench to use on the
> thread tensioner so when I find just the right
> tension I can replicate it as close as possible
> every time.....Can you say obsessive compulsive???
> HE HE!


Interesting! I have read this with great interest and its sparked a question about thread tension. I did a search on our site for this topic alone and there is allot of .....(seeming) information on just how much tension is applied to thread with wrapping. I also read about a tool measuring tension applied. I have seen many different devices for getting what the builder desires in getting their satisfactory results. I am sure every builder has there preference in the tools they use as do I. The question that I have in this thread is what Jim commented about here Quote:
( I've heard too tight can cause blank failure) This I feel needs more incite and I have not read anything about this in my time on the boards or perhaps I missed it. With respect to all builders out there do we have any more on this subject matter ? Have a good day today folks!

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
[www.facebook.com]
[home.comcast.net]

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: JIM MOWL (---.stat.centurytel.net)
Date: December 22, 2011 03:24PM

Rick,
I heard this long before forums and chat rooms. not even sure if it would be true with todays blanks. I would like to know if it is true also.
Hello? Myth Busters.......

Jim

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Re: Is CP the devil?
Posted by: Rufus Rhoden (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: December 23, 2011 08:17PM

CP is not the devil (but they may be relatives)

Rufus
Port Saint Lucie, FL

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