There is no substitute for experience. Just wanted to share with the other newbies on the site help on the learning curve of many questions we all seek answers too. I've been through the rod building seminar, and felt it was a great experience, But with so much information to learn, Two days was hardly enough. Too many questions, and so many different answers, Just read this web site and see for yourself, ask a question and get 10 different answers, not to say any of them are wrong, but to add it really adds to the confusion and fustration of learning. The learning curve I want to throw out there to all the newbies, that was suggested to me, and finally I followed up on it is this. Please, please find a seasoned pro, or seasoned rod builder in your area, meet with him, ask as many questions as they have time to answer, watch as much of their techniques as possible, develop your own techniques, and go from there. After my two day seminar, I believe I had more questions after than I had before the seminar, I've read this web site and others in search for solutions to problems, such as wrapping finishing, flow techniques to the epoxy, lumps, bubbles, self leveling, and after watching a seasoned pro actually mix his epoxy, bubbles everywhere in the cup, and saying watch this, as he added the finish onto the rod, watching with my own eyes, as no bubbles were formed in the finish, but were still in the epoxy cup, and the finish leveled out like glass is saying seeing is believing! In one afternoon a true professional rod builder, can answer more questions one on one with you than any book could provide. Ask a specific question, and get a specific answer. Food for thought for the many on here like myself, seeking answers to questions and developing your own technique. There truly is no substitute for experience. "IMHO"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2011 08:22AM by dave mckenzie.

Dave,
Possibly you mean substitute - rather than substitution?

Be safe
Roger

OK so how did he get rid of the bubbles in the epoxy finish. A problem I have from time to time.

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment".

Will Rogers

he already had a first but very light coat of finish on from that morning, that afternoon, mixed another batch, stired it vigorously and purposely to create bubbles, then applied another light coat but not at 6 to 18 rpm, but at 200 rpm, I was amazed at how well the finish went on, and how nice this job turned out. Like others, in my seminar, we used 11 rpm dryer set up's to brush the finish on, and the first few times we tend to placed the finish on thick, when I watched it done perfessionally, it was placed, using a good descent brush, at 200 rpm's a light coat, not a lot of finish, I could actually watch the finish at 200 rpm spin onto the rod, from the brush tip as it made contact like a ring of water going on, much like a wood worker turning wood on a lathe. After brushing on the finish (actually not brushing, he held the brush and made contact with the rod, The wrapper spinning at 200 rpm, sucked the finish right off of his brush), all of 5 minutes worth of work, and the guides were micro's, I noticed in the split grip part of the handle, behind the reel seat, he held a heat torch back away from it (the tip nearly a foot away), waved back and forth for a few seconds, then asked me to find any bubbles anywhere. This shop was well lit, and I have 20/20 eyesight, and I searched this rod out, There were no bubbles to be seen, The finish wasn't thick, after he took the wrapper off of 200 rpm by moving the belt to the other puller and clicked it back on to dry. The Pro then showed me the epoxy cup, and after finished I looked into the epoxy cup and the bubbles were as thick in the cup as salt floating in water, All I can say is Wow!! Perfect finish. The message to this madness was his method of applying the finish, speed, vs application of thin coats. The question on this site I've seen asked a few dozen times was about the finish, leveling vs bubbles, and have seen methods explained at least a dozen times, and the main message I received from reading the posts, were method, pick one and go with it, after seeing the pro finish the rod, I was able to formulate my own method and decided that was the method I wanted to go with.
To see the rods coming out of this shop was amazing, To see the different styles of rods, to see fishermen come in, and order a rod, knowing exactly what they wanted, The exact handle lenth, The exact rod lengh, then grab a rod, Push the tip against the ceiling blew me away, So I asked a top fisherman, why he was pushing the rod tip against the ceiling, The fisherman laughed and said he was checking the power of the rod, then handed me the rod, obviously I had one hand to far foreward, and he told me check the power from back here at the but, place the tip against the ceiling, now load the tip by pushing it against the ceiling and feel the power in the stick. The fishermen, actually went through the shop and very much reminded me of a woman shopping at wal mart getting groceries, The comments were, This is a great trout rod, this is a great punch stick, this would be a great flipping stick, give the measurements of grip lengh and style and overall rod lengh to the builder and walk out and leave.
The Pro Builder told me to start the afternoon off with, You'll get some of what I have to say immediately, some will sink in as you think about it, some things you may have to inquire about more than once, and some things you may or may not ever get, In one afternoon with a pro builder, I learned as much as I did in a two day seminar, because in a one on one sit down, he specifically answered "my" questions I had formed in the 5 months since the seminar of the why's, How's, and the I don't understand why we did this, but I was taught to do it this way's. So the pro builder took the learning foundation in which I started from, and built up from that.
Just saying, take a good solid starting foundation, and build up from it. Like every one else, I have books and DVD's from Doc Ski, Tom Kirkman, Clemmons and so forth and so on, But some of us learn by seeing much better than understanding it from a book. I watched as top fisherman also grabbed a stick out of the rack, reminded me of a pool hall and a billiard player grabbing a house stick, rolling it on a table, except these top fishermen, grabbed a rod, placed it on a digital scale, formed a circle around the rod by thumb and index finger being very careful not to add weight to the rod and measure the weight from 1.5 oz rods to 2.1 ounce, then seeing one like they wanted completely finished and weighing it, or asking the pro builder what the dress weight of a rod would be complete and seeing numbers zing through the air like a waitress receiving and order at a breakfast table. In My Honest Opinion, for any builder to be a serious builder, and sucessful builder, You need to visit a pro builder, or seasoned builder in your area, spend as much time with the builder as the builder will allow, and I have to say after leaving, My Hunger only grew from the information I had, to what I wanted to know more. Another tip for the new builders is be respective of the builders time, to them time is money, it's a valuable learning experience, but to the pro builder he gets his money from building, so as they take phone orders, or deal with customers, or gets distracted doing their normal activities, be patient and respectful of their time until they can get back to you and pick up from where you left off. Another tip is bring a camera, take pictures if allowed to do so, it's like a reference to go back and look at something twice perhaps to understand, make notes of your questions, as I walked in I had a legal notedpad, two pages full of the questions I wanted answers to, and this pro builder answered every one of my questions without hesitation, and specifically.
The last thing I want to say is this, The pro builder refused to endorse any one particular item, rather he explained the attributes each item brought to the table, he neither endorsed or ridiculed each component of the rod, The time I spent with this pro builder was time one couldn't put a price tag on. Just saying, if your serious about your skill, and you have a hunger to learn more, visit with a pro or seasoned builder on their time schedule and you won't be dissapointed, Your only dissapointment will come from what you coulda or shoulda done.
Up until I spent the time with the pro rod builder, I had read this site continuously and others watching questions being asked, reading answers being given, different methods, different styles, and if your not careful you could easily get confused in the readings of combining two methods or styles. I've met with and picked the brain of Todd Vivian, Which is a "Great" rod builder IMO, and I bet Todd could tell you over the phone how to build a rod, or send you a video of how to build a rod, or you could e-mail Mathew Jacobs Pro Staffer to the Mudhole, ask questions of Mathew, or Mr. Tom Kirkman, which puts out a great book of information, or any of the other greats out there, But until you sit down with a Pro builder, or one of these gentlemen one on one, watch their styles and methods being applied, to help you strenghen your own attributes to the rod building skill, The questions you have, and your hunger for information is only going to grow more, and more. The pro builder I spent time with, Insisted I not use his name or shop name, as it was a contribution back into the skill and trade of rod building, and that was his message, and he Generously donated his time to show his styles, methods, give deep and detailed answers, some were so deep, I can only research the information further, and in time, I could only hope to be half as good as some of these builders on this site, shop owners, or top fisherman researching through trial and error to develop that perfect rod to do the job it was intended to accomplish.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2011 08:53AM by dave mckenzie.

I learned to add finish with the rod turning at dryer speed yet when I visited a Pro he added the finish with the rod turning very slowly by hand.

Every builder does it there own way

Bill - willierods.com

I used a spetala wile terning 2w prm on my rud lath.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Dave.....Amen! You nailed it, and after my visit with one very recently, I have to agree with your prospective.