I posted up a few weeks ago about the sale that Mudhole has going on the leftover St Croix 2010 SCV rods and whether it was worth a few extra $$ over the 2011 SCIII. I ended up buying the SCV 9 foot Salmon/Steelhead blank.

So I needed some guides to go with it, and about the time I was planning the rod, I started playing around with the Fuji (Anglers Resource) new GPS software. This makes planning the rod a snap and led me to try their KT and KL guides for the first time. They came today. Wow. These are beautiful guides, with better fit and finish then I have seen on any other guides. The larger ones especially have this jewelry like finish-they almost look too nice to put on a fishing rod. The compound curved shape of the reduction guides will take a bit of getting used to, but I laid them out on the blank with just tape and the results from the GPS software are seemingly spot on, and laid out according to Fuji's measurements, look to be as good a reduction train as I could have done on my own. Actually quite impressive. I can forsee a need for a KL guide in a 10 size (currently goes down to 12)

Regarding the KT guides, has anyone used them? I'd love to hear your impressions, good and bad, before I wrap onto my new rod. They feel like they are stronger than normal single foot guides, at least they are more rigid due to the twin legs.

And thinking ahead, has anyone used the KT guides as running guides on a fly rod? I ask because the last 4 fly rods I have made I have used the KW guides as strippers and the KTs would be a good match as running guides on a heavier rod.

Drew

Thanks for the kind words Drew. I laid out probably 30 to 40 rods while developing GPS and gained great confidence, but that didn't keep me from puckering up a little bit when we introduced it. I am sure it will take some time for many builders to develop confidence in something so new, but we are already working on expanding and improving the app. Two brand new K-Series guides will be arriving in late December, along with a whole new build concept, and we are working now to include the "formula" for a KR CONCEPT build in GPS. (Glad to see your comments about the fit and finish of Fuji products, they are second to none and I can say that while struggling very hard to be objective ;•))

There are already (what I consider to be) some very interesting threads on the blog at our website. You can gain additional insight into the software and see, firsthand, how we use it to layout a rod. I will continue to answer questions and post additional information.

Concerning the KL, KT connection. Fuji "linked" these two guides to form a complete set. We think they separated them as a casting guide and a spinning reduction guide, but they actually form a continuous "set". When you need a KL10, reach for a KT10 and you're covered. Heights will reduce perfectly. I have gone back and incorporated KT heights in the KL tab of GPS. When KL gets down to a size 12, the KT size 10 shows up next in that suggested layout (with position measurements).

Starting in January, we will be strongly recommending the use of the new KB guide for the first couple running guides in micro layouts. Fuji's work revealed very high stresses in the mid-section of both spinning and casting micro-builds and developed what looks like a KT on steroids. It has a very beefy foot and very strong frame-base to overcome the stresses that develop mid-rod under load. Pics are on the website.

KW, KL, KT, KL-H (new) and KB (new) are all designed to match perfectly when set up together, and KT's look great on a fly rod!

I've used the TKTSG8 as running guides on light, 1-2-1/2 oz, surf rods. I'm very impressed with how strong they are. Even the smaller micro sizes seem to have very strong frames. So strong, I'm surprised to see the KB coming out, although that seems to be the trend for even tougher micros. They are great, strong guides

Jim Ising Wrote:
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> Concerning the KL, KT connection. Fuji "linked"
> these two guides to form a complete set. We think
> they separated them as a casting guide and a
> spinning reduction guide, but they actually form a
> continuous "set". When you need a KL10, reach for
> a KT10 and you're covered. Heights will reduce
> perfectly. I have gone back and incorporated KT
> heights in the KL tab of GPS. When KL gets down to
> a size 12, the KT size 10 shows up next in that
> suggested layout (with position measurements).
>



I thought this might be the case just by looking at them. My running guides are 6s but I ordered an 8 and a 10 to play with the heights. This confirms what I thought. Thanks for the reply and nice going on the GPS software.

Now I have to wait until after Thanksgiving to build the rod-with my kids home from college, my "rod room" will be in use.

Drew

I'm in the process of doing a rebuild on an 8 foot UL (2 piece). I'm attempting to use the GPS software but I can already see that I will have to tweak more than I wanted to. It's placing the guides right on top of the ferrule. I did notice that when I changed from using the 27x method to the reel measurement method the choker location and guide placement changed quite a bit. I'll be interested to see how this turns out. There was a 6 inch difference in the choker location when switching from the reel measurement to the 27x method. (27x method on a Pflueger reel with a spool size of 37mm) put the choker at 39.3". I measured the reel as per the tutorial, put in the numbers and the choker is now at 46.6". Huge difference. I did it several times thinking I did something wrong. I guess that's just how it works though.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

I had sort of the same issue as my reel has very little "upsweep" and ended using the 27x method. To keep it off the ferrule, you can adjust the input of the spool diameter, which will move the guides around on the rod. At least, that's how I did it. If the program let you vary the 27x between say 24x and 30x, that would allow you to do the same thing.

If I was reading the blog entries right, Jim said you can also vary the actual placement by an inch or so in either direction to "tweak" the rod's performance.

Drew

Depending on where things fall, you might try choosing a different set of sizes, say a 20, 12, 8 instead of a 25, 16, 10. Those are odd results from the measurements. Small reels for lighter (usually shorter) rods would normally have more upsweep, this one seems to have less. Most of the time 27X will place guides further out the rod. In this case 27X is closer. I have measurements here for a Pfleuger "President" 6750 and it has a steeper angle than almost any reel I've measured. When this happens to me I don't argue. I tape it and cast it. Allow yourself to bump any guide an inch in any direction. If things don't smooth out I usually find I've made a mistake somewhere. "Eyeballing" will tell you if GPS is on.

I'm discovering that it's kind of hard to help people with so little info. Do you have the measurements? I would guess you had a difference in A and B of 4 to 6 mm. If it was 2 or 3mm I would measure again.

Here are my measurements (did them several times). A-78mm; B- 72mm; C- 99mm.
Spool size is 37mm

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

I would tape according to the results. It doesn't look too strange to me. I would try it with a KL 16 at 29 inches and follow it with a KT10 at 37 then a KT4.5 at the choke point. I know a two guide reduction train sounds ridiculous, but it's not far off of Fuji's new KR CONCEPT. I would do this mostly for FUN and education. THEN, depending on how it casted, I might move the 16 and 10 in 2-inches and try again (the 2-inch leeway rule). If things weren't feeling good by then I might switch over to the KL20 at 25 inches followed by the KL12 at 34 and then move the choke point in one inch so the KT4.5 fell at 41 inches (mostly for looks). There's a great layout in there somewhere.

An 8 foot rod with light line is going to generate a ton of lure speed. If 27X had things moving closer to the reel I would be concerned about some "overrun" on the top of the stripper. I think the GPS position may prove the better choice just because in this case it moves things out rather than in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 11:17AM by Jim Ising.

I agree. I'll give it a shot. I don't have enough K's so I'm using Y's. I might be able to work with it some though. Thanks for the help Jim.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

Y's move even closer so you'll need to adjust.

I am ordering some more K's and I'll just wait til next week to finish it.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

Drew: Sounds like you found a very workable layout for your reel choice. If you could send me the reel info along with the measurements I can add them to the library. Thanks!

Thanks for putting this software together Jim, I'm sure it took a lot of effort and will be put to good use by many.

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
407-542-7840
www.GetBitOutdoors.com
www.facebook.com/GetBitOutdoors

Glad you like it Kevin. By the way, welcome as a Fuji vendor. I have added all your contact info to our website.

Jim Ising Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would tape according to the results. It doesn't
> look too strange to me. I would try it with a KL
> 16 at 29 inches and follow it with a KT10 at 37
> then a KT4.5 at the choke point. I know a two
> guide reduction train sounds ridiculous, but it's
> not far off of Fuji's new KR CONCEPT. I would do
> this mostly for FUN and education. THEN, depending
> on how it casted, I might move the 16 and 10 in
> 2-inches and try again (the 2-inch leeway rule).
> If things weren't feeling good by then I might
> switch over to the KL20 at 25 inches followed by
> the KL12 at 34 and then move the choke point in
> one inch so the KT4.5 fell at 41 inches (mostly
> for looks). There's a great layout in there
> somewhere.
>
> An 8 foot rod with light line is going to generate
> a ton of lure speed. If 27X had things moving
> closer to the reel I would be concerned about some
> "overrun" on the top of the stripper. I think the
> GPS position may prove the better choice just
> because in this case it moves things out rather
> than in.

I ended up using the 20 at 24.96" then the 12 at 34" then down to a 5 at 42". It casts twice as far as before. Basically, using GPS software with the reel measurement option instead of the 27x it hit the sweet spot. I was getting frustrated with it. Thanks for the help because it really made a huge difference. Oh, forgot to say that I'm using the K guides instead of the Y. I still need some more for the tip section so the test cast was with a mixed set but nevertheless the problem is solved. Nice software. My opinion based on testing: It works nicely.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

Fantastic David. You provided your measurements above, but can you give me a little more detail on the Pfleuger model number?

It's not really a Pflueger. It's the Gander Mt. version model GST25F. It looks exactly like a small Pflueger Pres. 6725. If you hold it side by side you can't tell the difference at all except for the name and the handle. Same measurements and all. I don't think they make the GST25F any more. I have 2 of them though. Nice reels.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH