I think Andrew makes some interesting points. Are we splitting hairs here? Perhaps. But at the pinnacle of almost every endeavor is there not a point where discussions like this one take place. Envelopes get pushed. Dust is stirred up... and settles. Things improve sometimes. Sometimes they don't. Pick the characteristics that are important to your style of fishing and choose the ring you want accordingly. Does a panfisherman in Tennessee need SiC? Probably not. But, he might choose it anyway because it's, well, it's SiC.

If he is willing to pay for them -- Go for it It's the name

Bill - willierods.com

Jim Ising Wrote:
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> I think Andrew makes some interesting points. Are
> we splitting hairs here? Perhaps. But at the
> pinnacle of almost every endeavor is there not a
> point where discussions like this one take place.
> Envelopes get pushed. Dust is stirred up... and
> settles. Things improve sometimes. Sometimes they
> don't. Pick the characteristics that are important
> to your style of fishing and choose the ring you
> want accordingly. Does a panfisherman in Tennessee
> need SiC? Probably not. But, he might choose it
> anyway because it's, well, it's SiC.

Well said Jim. I was actually logging on to say that again it comes back to personal preferences and what areas you feel are more important to you. The nice thing is having people step up to explain exactly what all this stuff is.

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Thanks to all. Great discussion.

Andrew, I hear you. However, I've done friction tests - just a simple line pull through guides - and can vouch that different guides can vary significantly in terms of how much they degrade a line. For those on a budget, the metal ringed TiCh/TiN coated PacBay M guides matches some of the best in terms of heat dissipation and not degrading line.

Jim Ising, really appreciate an insider's comments. We've seen this with various brands so it is not limited to one brand. Can you confirm that Fuji 3.5 SIC is now as smooth as the larger ones?

Thanks,
Mo

I use nothing but SiC tip tops on my rod when using braid for ocean sportfish. Less chance of braid fraying on fast fish.

As Jim and Alex said, sometimes we have to pick guides that best work for your particular situation.

Like Mo, I think you only have to run the line over the various inserts and you can feel and see the differences. I've sold a lot of SIC guides just by asking the customer to run the line over the guides while holding the line in their hands. To those people, smoother was the most important factor in their decision making.

As far as the original question, it seems that with most things being manufactured, there is a difference between the vendors that offer it. By looking through magnification, I've seen the difference between 2 companies. Whether that is consistant, I don't know, I've had guide inserts vary from the same manufacturer, similar to what Mo is saying between the 4 and 3.5.

We had meetings this week with our Japanese trading partner and ask them to pose the question to Fuji. They said as far as they know the 3.5's are made and polished by the same company (KYOCERA) but they will check further.

Jim,

Thanks for continuing to follow this.

I do not doubt that Kyocera (a very good manufacurer of ceramics including ceramic knives) polish the 3.5 and 4.0. However, the observation from a number of observers is that that 3.5 lags. The question may not be whether Kyocera manufactures both rings, but whether they have now improved it so that 3.5 is of the same quality as the 4.0. Not debating here - just clarifying. Appreciate your responding.

Thanks,
Mo