How does the carbon skinned foam grips compare to cork and/or eva in regards to weight and sensitivity? Assuming all things equal, split grip setup, do you save much weight by using the foam and carbon? I do not have the supplies or know how yet to make the carbon skinned grip, but plan on attempting one this spring. Any insight into the weight or sensitivity is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jeremy Reed

A carbon skin over 8lb foam is lighter than cork by a bit. It's also far more rigid and therefore is more sensitive.

Certain grades of EVA are actually lighter than cork, but due to the less rigid nature of the material it will ultimately possess a lower stiffness to weight ratio and generally be less sensitive.

............

I must be doing something wrong because my 8# foam weighs about the same as cork before I add the carbon skin and West epoxy. I'm not doubting you, Tom, but I just don't see that in my own cores. I have poured about thirty cores, 15" long. I'd be happy to send you a core to see what I am doing wrong.

Chuck

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Jeremy,

I'll share my experience. I'm yet to do a sleeved grip, but I'll give you a ball park idea of how things I've done compare. My personal rods for the most part have 4 handle configurations. I make sure that I have grips that fill the hands pretty well for two handed casting and that the grips and seat are comfortable for me to hold all day long while fishing.

Keep in mind a sz. 16 exposed blank casting seat weighs in the neighborhood of 1oz. give or take depending on the diameter of the blank. I don't split my seats, as most of my blanks are relatively narrow, and I don't like the feel of split seat on them. Trimming the excess threads from the reel seat will save a couple grams around 1/8oz. or so. The figures below are ball park numbers and vary slightly from build to build.

Option 1. Heaviest, Casting rods w/ split grips made from woven graphite tapered fore grips with shims and bushings from Batson, exposed blank seat and micro guides. Total weight added to blank, just under 2oz. This is by far my preferred grip of the ones I use on casting rods.

Option 2. Middle, Casting rods w/ split grips made from hard EVA from Batson (similar dimensions to woven graphite, but not exact), exposed blank seat and micro guides. Total weight added to blank, ~1.75oz.

Option 3. Lightest Casting rods w/ split grips of the same dimensions as the EVA, exposed blank seat and micro guides. Total weight added to blank, ~1.5oz.

Option 4. Lightest grips I've done, and most comfortable spinning handle I've used. Spinning rods, w/ split TN handle. 5-5.5" section of woven graphite tube 1.05" OD with shims and bushings from Batson, and EVA butt grip (same as casting build). NGC 27x spacing with micro runners (steel frame guides with H rings). Total weight added to blank, ~1oz.

Until I have the time and resources to start turning and sleeving my own grips I can't add the other data points that interest you the most, but I hope this helps.

Joe

My finished foam cores have all been heavier than my cork grips of similar dimensions. I have made cores from #8 and #6 and neither have been lighter. I have made them with minimal epoxy (squeegeed out as much as possible and left the carbon texture) and the weight is still more.

Chuck,

I don't know that you're doing anything wrong, but I do know the weight of such grips can vary depending on how much epoxy you use to wet out and/or coat the grip. I leave no epoxy on top of my carbon skins and coat with a single application of PermaGloss. They end up being just a little bit lighter than a cork grip of the same dimensions.

There are also different thicknesses and sizes of carbon skins. All these variables make it impossible to state a single weight for a foam-core, carbon-skinned grip.

In any case, they are are more rigid than cork grips.

...................

Truth is, I'm not at all worried. They look cool, and they attract customers.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Grips of identical dimensions:

EVA: 13.8g
Cork: 14.2g
Carbon Skin: 16.6g

I swithced to a different epoxy to wet out the carbon and seeing some weight reduction. Haven't done enough grips with it yet to nail down how much weight savings.

-----------------
AD

Many variables. Instead of weight alone ask yourself about looks, durability, and sensitivity too. No holistic solution should be evaluated on one parameter alone.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Didn't Bill Colby write an article on this?!?

jeremy

Yes. Volume 13 #3. He found the foam grips to be lighter than cork, but once the carbon skin was applied he stated that he found no difference in weight between the two.

This is different than my personal experience, however, as I've stated above, the weight will vary depending on your epoxy and subsequent top coating. My carbon-skinned, foam-core grips are lighter than my cork grips by a tad. Others may have different results depending upon their construction and finishing techniques.

..............

In reality, why worry about the weight of the grip as long as it is reasonable. The weight is right where you need it and whether lighter or heavier will have virtually no effect on the performance of the rod.

If the weight were at the tip, that would be a different story. But an extra gram or even an extra oz, right in the palm of your hand will have virtually no effect on the rod and reel and its performance.

After all, folks put 6 oz reels on a rod. Then, they put 8 oz reels on a rod. Then, sometimes a 12 oz reel will be put on a rod for a special purposed. In all cases, the rod performs equally well. The balance is the key, not necessarily the absolute weight.
If the grip works for you, use it. If the grip does not work for you, use something else.

Good wrapping.

Roger.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm looking to use foam handles in a split grip for finesse rods in the future, such as drop shot and finesse spinning rods. As long as there isn't a big disparity between weights, I'd prefer to use carbon, especially since they are more rigid, which kicks the sensitivity up. Plus they look pretty sweet. On rods where sensitivity is vital, I'd like to use the best option. Thanks for all the help.

Jeremy W. Reed
Reed Rods

Jeremy, I think for drop shot / finesse rods you will be pleased with using carbon. I have the same Batson RX8 drop shot blank built with cork and with carbon and I prefer the carbon hands down. I also use carbon on my Senko rod (and a few others) and truly just like the smoothness (and looks). I don't leave the carbon weave texture and built them out smooth even though this will add to the weight. If I want extra grip, I actually build it into the foam design to have raised finger ridges but they are still smoothly finished. I haven't thrown one in the water yet. :)

Nor are you likely too - most hammer handles are smoothly finished as well and they're not hard to hang onto. "Slick" and "Smooth" are not the same thing.

............

Jeremy
If you are going to build as a spinning rod?
You may want to look at the “Hot handle” concept written about in RodMaker Mag Volume 11 issue #2

Done properly it will provide you the most sensitive setup you can build using Caron only. No foam, no cork, no arbors, no any sensitivity robbing materials.