If a fly rod has an ERN of 8.03 (63 pennies) and the first 30' of a fly line specs out exactly as an 8wt, what is the effective length the fly line can be aerialized before the rod is overloaded or the loops/cast starts to deteriorate - by a Joe Blow average caster? Thanks.

That's a bit hard to say due to the fact that the physical weight of the line is only part of the equation - the caster's input counts too, and by adjusting that you can still effectively cast much greater weight than the rod was actually designed for. This holds true for spinning and casting rods as well.

If you have a rod with an ERN of 8.03 and attempted to aerialize much more than say, 50 feet of AFTMA #8 line, I believe your rod would be overloaded, although with some adjustment on your part, you could still cast it. Perhaps not in optimum fashion, but you could do it.

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So if I had a need to cast 60'-70' of line, I should drop down one line weight to do so? Thanks.

Cast or aerialize that much? With 40 or so feet of line past the tip, you should be able to easily shoot another 20 or 30 feet of line.

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It all comes down too that nothing is written in stone

Build it - cast a 8 wt line and see if you like the way and feel of how it casts And how you cast LOL

Then Beg - Borrow and try to get a lower and higher line and try them You may find you like the blank with a 9 and or a 7

Bill - willierods.com

Aren't fly lines given an aftma rating based on the weight of the first 30 feet of the head? and would that not suggest that the ERN no for an eight weight would suggest optimal performance based on the AFTMA standards for the line-in that as I understand it that would mean optimal performance could be expected with 30 feet of arialised line, standard average of course? If that were not the case then I would see it as the CCS not really functioning as a guide any better than the current "Try, deternin and designate" system. that is based on feel and experience!

The system is the best thing since Sliced Bread

But not all makers of blanks use it OR they use it one ONE blank out of a Bunch of blanks and then mark all of that bunch the same They don't have the time to get to that much Extreme Top end blanks already cost TOO much Why are most all factory rods lacking at least ONE guide Money

OK you go to buy a car You got your hart set on a Chevy --- But you get into the one you THOUGHT you wanted and find out You Don't like it

I would think it will cast Very Well with a 8 WT line with those numbers Would I like it - Maybe -- maybe not I may like it with a 9

What blank ????

Bill - willierods.com

Earl Hamilton Wrote:
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> Aren't fly lines given an aftma rating based on
> the weight of the first 30 feet of the head? and
> would that not suggest that the ERN no for an
> eight weight would suggest optimal performance
> based on the AFTMA standards for the line-in that
> as I understand it that would mean optimal
> performance could be expected with 30 feet of
> arialised line, standard average of course? If
> that were not the case then I would see it as the
> CCS not really functioning as a guide any better
> than the current "Try, deternin and designate"
> system. that is based on feel and experience!

Well said Earl, that's what I was looking for in "aerialized" - I can haul, double haul with more line at my feet, coiled in my hand, or in a stripping basket - I was just trying to understand with an 8.03 ERN rated rod, at what point does it not flex properly and cast efficiently? I can probably muscle it under 30' - I was interested in a maximum amount of line before it became a diminishing return.

willy - a blank with an 8.03 ERN . . .

Depending on how you cast Your ability to cast The power of the blank How you are fishing it Conditions Location

But the numbers you got are In The Ball Park and a very good starting point

Now go build it and go fishing

Bill - willierods.com

Earl,

The CCS measures relative power, action and speed. These, along with weight and length, are the inherent properties of a rod blank.

It does not measure line weight nor casting input. You can complain that a hammer won't turn a screw but that does not make the hammer at fault.


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Tim,

No system has any idea what your casting input is or will be. That's impossible to know because you can change it at will. That's why ERN = ELN is a suggestion, not a measurement nor requirement.

Matching a line to a rod from one or more of these measurements is up to the individual user. The inventor offered a suggestion of ERN = ELN, but again, this is only a suggestion as a place to start. You may, and even should, alter that equation to match the particular type or style of fishing you do. I use ERN-1 = ELN for most of my river fly fishing.

I think if you will work with some rods of which you know the CCS values, you'll soon learn what lines match the rated power you have, for what you're personally doing. Once you have that factor, you can continue using it in the future to achieve similar results.

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What is ERN-1 = ELN . . .

In that case, with a rod with an ERN of say, 6, I would use a 5-weight line. That specific equation and factor, matches the fishing distances I encounter for that type of fishing.

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Safe to assume you are double hauling with an 8 weight so 40-50' would be about right in terms of how much line is in the air while in your casting/loading stroke (not shooting stroke). Doesn't matter how much line shoots after that final haul correct? You just wouldn't want tp try and pick up 70' off the water. Strip back to what you can handle then re-load and shoot.

maybe you should tell us all what type of rod you are going to build and what type of fishing you plan on doing

We are all guessing here

Bill - willierods.com

You've got it about right Todd. Actually I'm going to build a 10wt fly rod to throw leeches and streamers, with maybe an egg dropper, at the end of a furled leader to holding Salmon over gravel. Since the current in the river is rather swift, I'll probably go with a weight-forward sink tip to get the offering down immediatley so I can start stripping. I don't mind paying a few bucks for a good line but I'd like to only buy one and have it do the task intended without having to buy another line. I could probably use a 9wt or an 11wt line and still drop it where I want to - I was just asking a simple question how much line I could put in the air if the line was matched to a rod with the same rating while casting? I'd rather load a little and shoot alot but I'll go with Tom's 50' as the limit. Thanks guys.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2011 07:39PM by Tim Collins.

The higher the line weight and the lower the ERN, the more quickly the rod will load with a short length of line out. But there is a downside - you will run out of steam (rod power) when trying to make very long casts.

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The sink tip lines tend to be rated by weight not necessarily by line weight. Plus, there are other variables like how much of the line is weighted and the like. If you use something standard like a 24 foot sink tip, you will probably be in the 400 grain zone for a 10 weight rod.

I don't think there is such a beast as "weight forward sink tip" because any sink tip will, by it's nature, be "weight forward".

Unfortunately, you have to play around with lines (which means buying lines) to find out what works for you and works for the rod you have..

For me, I find a fast 8wt will throw a 300 grain 30 foot sink tip just about right. But I've had to go through 250, 300, 350 to find what I liked best. There is no way around the trial and error.

Just me, but I would size the power of the rod by the fish you are targeting. If they are 15 pound salmon, then an 8 wt will be fine. If you are going after Alaskan kings then the 10 weight will be what you want. Then find the line that your rod will cast well, and sink to your liking.

Remember too, that when you are fishing sinking lines, your leaders will be very short.

Good luck, salmon fishing with a fly rod is great sport.

Drew