I plan to build a moderate-fast 9' 10wt as my next project for Salmon and keeping the upper tip section as light as possible is my main goal. I've used ceramics on fly rods before but I'm thinking even double wraps on snake guides would be just as light. I have two questions:

- Are the TiCh snake guides worth almost triple the money? What are the real advantages?

- Has anyone ever put single foot snakes for the two guides or so and then used double foot the rest of the way?

I think sometimes builders try to protect the tip section by keeping guides close starting out but on all of my rods, the first 2 feet or so are always pointed straight out when fish fighting so I don't know if it's just because that's the way it's always been done or if I'm missing something here? Thanks.

Tim,
Since you've already made your decision to use snake type guides.... If I were building a 10wt and I thought that there might be a time that I would use it in saltwater conditions I'd use REC brand nickel / titanium alloy snakes & single foots. If I was absolutely certain that it would never see salt or be left wet/dirty in a rod sack then I'd opt for another brand - likely Hopkins & Holloway.
Not sure what you mean by "single foot snakes" unless you just mean single foot wire guides - if you mean single foot wire for strippers - sure.

Other than that I'm not completely convinced that a 9' 10 wt rod to be used for salmon needs to be all that "light" that you need to use snake guides. I think that single foot (ceramic or not) would result in fewer guides on the rod overall.

Minima 4s might be another consideration

Or even the American tackle Titans

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 08:56AM by bill boettcher.

Second the REC's if any potential to be in the salt. Also look at the Snake Brand and Hopkins and Halloways. Very nice snakes. Have a 9wt project that will have the HH TiCh snakes.

Ken Preston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Not sure what you mean by "single foot snakes"
> unless you just mean single foot wire guides - if
> you mean single foot wire for strippers - sure.
>
> Other than that I'm not completely convinced
> that a 9' 10 wt rod to be used for salmon needs to
> be all that "light" that you need to use snake
> guides. I think that single foot (ceramic or
> not) would result in fewer guides on the rod
> overall.

Must be my inexperience then - I thought a snake guide was the same as a wire guide - single foot or double foot. I'd still like to know if anyone has ever put single foot "wire or snake guides" for the first couple of guides followed by regular double foot "wire or snake guides"? Whether I use df ceramics or sf Recoils for the strippers is irrelevant as long as I have the strength there and the mid-section. I'd like to keep the tip section as light as possible whether it's necessary or not.

"Snakes" are the 'classic' fly rod guides ie: twisted metal with two feet that are wrapped on the blank. "Wire guides" come in many configurations. REC makes both single and double foot wire guides one looks like a spinning guide the other looks like a casting guide. BOth have a double loop of nickel / titanium wire at the top of the hoop. These are especially nice because they can take a lot of banging around - more than ceramic insert type guides. Yes - I have used them / mixed and matched them on fly rods. Casting type for a stripper; 1 or two single foots for the next guides in line and "snakes" the remainder of the way to the tip. REC also makes a "loop" type tip top where there is a double loop of wire protruding from the tip top tube. REC is more pricey - but not much of a difference percentage wise if you consider how much you are paying for the other components, how much time you're putting in to the build etc........

REC can be found here: [www.mudhole.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 12:25PM by Ken Preston.

I just finished a 9' 10 WT for muskie a few weeks ago. I almost NEVER use ceramic inserts on my fly/spey rods as a ring failure will ruin a trip fast and IMHO do not think that it hinders casting distance at all. It does not damige the line in any way either. In this case I used chrome unbraced boat guides for the strippers 16, 12 then a #6 & #5 snakes followed by, 4s up to the top (snake). Not sure that singles would have made any difference in this case.

Thanks for the help guys. I did dig out my old 2003-2004 REC Components price guide and it refers to the RSF and RSFX guides as "RECOIL single foot (snake) guides. But I understand why the double foot is referred to as a "snake" - our bad. Thanks again.

Tim,
I've been using single foot titanium snakes for the top 3-4 guides before switching to standard double foot steel for the past several years.
Makes the rod "feel" lighter, reduces swing weight, increases rod response speed.
I use the same approach for freshwater also.
Never had a problem.

Eugene Moore

Thanks Eugene. Which titanium guides do you use?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 09:00PM by Tim Collins.

Tim,
For rods 8 weight and under I use Recoil RSF.
For rods 8 weight and over or salt water duty switch to RSFX.
It really depends on the strain you expect to apply when fighting a fish (Tippet strength)
You will still feel the advantages of a light rod tip


Eugene Moore

I have read that experts on fly fishing for bones and other fast running salt fish prefer snakes and not the single foot wire guides. Their belief is the snakes are less likely to snag a connection, like the backing to fly line connection. Their plan would be to have a double foot "casting" guide for the stripper, then all snakes to the end. And an oversize tiptop.