I was running a film boat for a local tv show this weekend filming an event with the wounded warriors. I took a couple of my custom rods with me in case I got the chance to fish ( I mean who wouldn't!). An outdoor writer joined us in the film boat for the day. After some time, he asked about my rods. We got to talking, and the conversation lead to rod builders who go from custom rods to making series of rods and sponsoring professionals. He asked me "when does a custom rod become a production rod?"

I am sure that after searching the web, you guys are familiar with some rod companies that say "<Company name> Custom Rods". Then you look at their site and there is only 'series' of standard type rods to choose from. I personally don't agree that at this point it is a custom rod. However, that is my opinion and it is neither right nor wrong!

So I ask, when does a custom rod become a production rod? What is your view on this?

That all depends on your definition of custom, and as we know, those definitions vary.

Whatever your definition might be, I think we can all agree that a rod built with a specific person's needs in minds is different than one built without any particular person in mind. As far as basic rod construction - you build your rods pretty much the same way that Berkley, Michell, Sage, Orvis, etc., build theirs. Building rods is still largely a hand labor process.

.............

Great answer. The definition does vary and I think that is what makes it a bit more difficult to answer. However, I will stand behind the answer you gave. I like it...Thanks!!!

A lot of rods out today should be called "handmade" rods and not custom.

I really see no difficulty in this question at all in my opinion. The answer is rather simple..... Tom K hit the center on it however. Custom is defined to the "One" the tool is made for! Not the "Many" I would go as far to say anything outside of that would perhaps be in the production definition or even go further to say its a unique production line ! One of a kind is what I like to use with my customers and they seem to like the definitive answer when I say that. Just my thought on this subject folks.

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

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After I posted, I got to thinking about something that I remember reading in the book, "Heddon - The Rod with the Fighting Heart" (Michael Sinclair 1997). Heddon was a production rod company but also made a series of what they termed "handmade rods." The difference in a Heddon production rod and a Heddon handmade rod had to do with the people and the steps each performed in the rod's assembly.

Heddon production rods involved a number of people who each performed a specific task. One person might be involved in splitting cane. Another might fit and adhere reel seats. Another might be in charge of varnishing the wraps. In other words, on any given rod, a dozen or more people might be involved.

Heddon "handmade" rods involved just a very few people and each person made each rod in its entirety. The more skill and seniority a person had, the higher the grade rod series they were assigned to build. So in effect, when you bought a Heddon "handmade" rod you were getting a rod that had been built, start to finish, by a single person. For history's sake, all Heddon rods from model 20 and up, were "handmade" rods.

I strongly suspect that few commercial rod companies have any similar system whereby a single person does everything from making the blank, to building the handle, to wrapping and finishing the guides. Perhaps this is a good definition of handmade or even "custom." Did a number of people participate, or was the rod built start to finish by the same person?

.................

At any given time I have 3 rods that are in our local outdoor store (only one within 40 miles of here). On those rods I put a label that says "Handcrafted" and I don't use the word "custom" anywhere on the label. The rods are built by using avg. spool sizes etc. There are no decorative wraps except for maybe a few inlay threads here and there. They are all different colors according to what kind of rod it is. Ex. Casting rods-black/red; spinning-black/green etc. I have only sold 3 through that store in about 4 months or so and all three have contacted me with good comments. Two of them are wanting "custom" rods in the near future. So basically what I'm saying is that if I don't make a rod specifically for one person, I don't call it custom, I call it handcrafted.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

Personally, I feel that a "custom" rod made by one person or by 10, as long as it is made for that person to his specifications, then it is custom. If 15 are made and waiting for someone to buy them, then they are not custom.

If it was made without a person in mind, then its not custom. I see it all the time on $bay. "Custom" rod for sale....... Custom for who?

kevin knox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, I feel that a "custom" rod made by one
> person or by 10, as long as it is made for that
> person to his specifications, then it is custom.
> If 15 are made and waiting for someone to buy
> them, then they are not custom.
>
> If it was made without a person in mind, then its
> not custom. I see it all the time on $bay.
> "Custom" rod for sale....... Custom for who?

This is along the line of the point I was trying to make. I agree with this 100%. Also as Tom described and David said...there is certainly a difference between custom and handcrafted.

Aren't all rods really hand made!!! I do production type rods . The guide layouts are not what you would find on most "factory" rods but the rods are still kind of generic and not built to a specfic person.But I also have a semi custom line which you can order a rod and pick certain options, but still limited to what you can get. I also do full blown customs but under a different name. So I agree with Kevin and that a custom is a rod built from butt to tip for one person!

I ponder this question often. Sometimes it feels like a very slippery slope!

If I build myself a "custom" rod then decide to sell it is still a "custom" rod even though the buyer wasn't the intended user from the start?
Hummm?????

If I build 3 or 4 rods at the same time for different clients who just so happen to be wanting the same rod type without any "fancy" embelishments
and coincidentally need the same grip measurements etc.. would these rods be concidered "production"? Would it matter if I built then one at a
time or did all the grips/handles, then guides, then finish on them at the same time?

If I introduce a "line" of a given rod type with the same grip material/style/wraps but are ordered and built individually for each client, with or without customer's
name added (as an extra or not) is that a custom rod? What if they can choose or not choose thread color?

Does a production run have to be 100 rods or would 3 fall into the same catagory?

I'm sure if a boat Capt. ordered 10 rods of the same type for his boat to be used by his various clients wouldn't they be concidered "custom" as well
as "production"?

See where I'm going with this?

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Custom rods must be unique. If i make two equal rods for different clients and put their names on it, they are not custom. They are just handcrafted rods.
Just my thoughts about this.
Abraço

Nuno Paulino

One rod for one person equals "custom".
All rods must be "hand-built".
BIG DIFFERENCE!!

Here is my worm's eye opinion.

The dictionary lists custom as "Made to personal order" ,"doing work only on order".

When we assemble a rod from components to the specification of the user or buyer it then becomes a custom rod. Even if a buyer wants a number of rods assembled to the same specifications all those rods by definition are custom rods.

I believe that one can purchase and assemble all the components of a "BRAND X" factory rod and produce a rod better than the factory. The reason being the factory components have a fabrication tolerance, all the components in the assembly bins have to fit, so they are loose or sloppy fits. The rod crafter eliminates this tolerance by hand fitting each component, prep the guides, properly spacing the guides, carefully laying the thread over the guide feet, applying the finish and all the other LABOR INTENSIVE details that go into assembling a quality rod. Side by side the rod may look like the "BRAND X" rod but in reality your rod in my opinion is custom and better assembled.

STILL AWAKE?

If you built a rod just to keep your hand in it and customer sees it and decides that is what he wanted, then you sold a custom rod.

The person who decides if a rod is "custom" or not, may be the person who buys it.

I know the snipers are ready to tear me a new one, BUT AS I STATED BEFORE, IT'S ONLY MY OPINION, by no means gospel.

thanks

John

Hi,

Always a fun topic to follow. Catchy names/phrases/art work etc. are sales gimmicks. Used properly and you may increase your business. I am in no way trying to demean someone's talent and hard work. What I am getting to is that the customer in his own mind determines what he has just bought. He now owns it so he can call it anything he wants.

I build rods to specific order. I build rods to spec in hopes of selling them at shows. I also have rods in a rack at the shop for sale if someone needs a rod in a hurry. 2 guys stop by and buy a rod out of the for sale rack for a present. Of course the price was very reasonable. As they walk out the door I hear them talking about the great deal they got on a custom rod. It is now theirs and can call it what they will.

Many rod builders wear many different hats at different times. Guys, as long as my rods are going out the door after some green lands in my palm I am happy. Call me anything you want but LATE FOT DINNER!

Have a great rod building day!

Capt Neil Faulkner

Capt Neil Faulkner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> Always a fun topic to follow. Catchy
> names/phrases/art work etc. are sales gimmicks.
> Used properly and you may increase your business.
> I am in no way trying to demean someone's talent
> and hard work. What I am getting to is that the
> customer in his own mind determines what he has
> just bought. He now owns it so he can call it
> anything he wants.
>
> I build rods to specific order. I build rods to
> spec in hopes of selling them at shows. I also
> have rods in a rack at the shop for sale if
> someone needs a rod in a hurry. 2 guys stop by
> and buy a rod out of the for sale rack for a
> present. Of course the price was very reasonable.
> As they walk out the door I hear them talking
> about the great deal they got on a custom rod. It
> is now theirs and can call it what they will.
>
> Many rod builders wear many different hats at
> different times. Guys, as long as my rods are
> going out the door after some green lands in my
> palm I am happy. Call me anything you want but
> LATE FOT DINNER!
>
> Have a great rod building day!


Couldn't have said it better myself.

jeremy