Gidday Gents,

I have battled with epoxy levelness for most of my rod building career. I use Tom's process of 180 degree turns for the first 2 hours or so and then set to rotate for another 2 hours. This gives me perfectly finished guide wraps.

When it comes to my label/rod specification/ signature panels which on my rods are often 200-250mm long and may incorporate the first guide wrap on a heavy rod, my epoxy work is a bit ordinary. Those pesky ridges, bumps and waves begin to appear no matter how thin the coat. I have also noticed that the finish is erratic over the new peel n stick decals I am using (sourced through Debbie at Decal Connection).

Anyway, has anyone got any further tips for getting perfect finishes over these long sections? Spatula or brush? Thin or regular epoxy? Thinning? Heat guns?

It seems as though the finish isn't levelling. I am giving it ample time (2 hours) without spinning on the rotisserie to let it "do it's thing".

I feel the frustration welling up insdie me as I type this... any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Chris

Spray a couple light coats of Krylon Fixatif over all decals and let dry. This makes decals EASY and painless, perfect finish every time.

Go to a much thinner and slower curing finish. Apply finish while rod is in the dryer and turning. No stopping waiting dripping 180 or whatever. Do your long wrap FIRST, or separately from the guides, while your finish is at it's thinnest.

DR

Chris;

The only way I can get a level finish over a long wrap is apply it with a brush and apply it long ways, rotating the rod by hand and doing about 2 inch sections in one rotation. Only on guide wraps do I apply while rotating under power.
I have tried it while rotating under power ( at various rpm's) and I always had the little ridges, on each side of the brush, to contend with.

If you are getting fish-eyes on your decals, cover it with a coat of CP before finishing. Although , I use Decal Connection decals and never use CP and never have a problem. And I never touch the decal with my fingers.


Of course this is my technique and it works great for me. I'm sure others will do it differently.

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY

I've had no issue with DC's decals. No need for any fixative. I do quite a few a week and never have any problems with finish covering the decal. I've used several brands of finish as well.

Like DR, I also apply over long runs when finish is thinnest (or fresh) and then do guides.

Try a layer of finish, using a brush - lightly fan/feather the finish longways (kills the ridges) - stick it on the dryer and forget it. I use a 6rpm dryer. The feathering creates longways ridges, but those easily disappear while the rod turns.

-----------------
AD

I have tried the lengthways brush strokes with limited success. I will try the feathering technique. Thanks for your collective ideas!!

It always amazes me when I visit the tackle shop and look at relatively inexpensive rods, that their finish is usually perfect and I wonder why I am so challenged in this department.

Chris -

Do your guides with one batch and follow that with a fresh batch exclusively for the long signature area. Brush lengthwise, and feather as Alex indicated. Use a quality brush, such as found at an art supply. I prefer a flat, soft bristle brush about 5/16" wide. Turn the rod by hand while applying, then rotate via dryer. It takes a little practice, but after a couple dozen attempts you will have it down pat. There are only two tricks in my approach ... a fresh batch of epoxy and a quality brush using lengthwise strokes. This is the one occasion that I actually "paint" the finish onto the rod. As Alex said, there isn't a need for fixative or anything else. Adhere the label according to DC's instructions and apply finish.

Jim -

Thanks Jim. I will definitely try the approach of a separate batch and a new brush.
Wil llet you know how it all goes.
Cheers
Chris

Alex Dziengielewski Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've had no issue with DC's decals. No need for
> any fixative. I do quite a few a week and never
> have any problems with finish covering the decal.
> I've used several brands of finish as well.
>
> Like DR, I also apply over long runs when finish
> is thinnest (or fresh) and then do guides.
>
> Try a layer of finish, using a brush - lightly
> fan/feather the finish longways (kills the ridges)
> - stick it on the dryer and forget it. I use a
> 6rpm dryer. The feathering creates longways
> ridges, but those easily disappear while the rod
> turns.

Alex, do you apply your finish while turning at 6rpm or do you apply at a different speed?

Chris,
I always apply the finish off a fresh batch first to the long or butt wraps on a rod.
I always apply the finish as quickly as possible. I generally just want to get all areas of the area covered with finish. I am not so concerned with how much finish is applied, but rather want to be sure that all areas of the blank needing finish are well wetted with the finish.
I generally apply with the rod rotating at a speed of about 50 rpm.

Then, I go on down the rod, not worrying about any excess finish that might happen to be on the butt section, applying finish to each of the guides. Again, I apply at a high speed stopping the rod, on both sides of the guide to get finish to both sides of the guide feet.

As soon as all of the guides have been coated, I slow down the rod - to about 15 rpm and then, using gentle heat, thin the finish enough so that any excess finish puddles on the bottom of the rod, where it can be dabbed off with the brush. After a lot of practice, there is generally little to no excess dripping down.

Again, I will continue on down the rod, checking each guide and using a bit of gentle heat if necessary to thin out the finish to allow any excess finish to wick off.

Finally, I go back to the beginning and carefully check every section of finish for any flaws - all while the rod is turning - now at the final drying speed of about 6-8 rpm for any flaws. If any flaws are found, it is corrected and the rest of the rod is checked.

Normally this entire process on the typical rod will be in the 3-5 minute range. Longer rods, a few minutes more. Time is money off of the bottom line. When a person needs to finish 20 or 30 rods at a time, anything that will save a few seconds or a few minutes is to the advantage of the bottom line.

As Mr. Kirkman has pointed out in the past, I never let the rod turn unattended for the first hour of drying. I will check at 5 minute intervals for at least the first half hour for signs of any problem. If anything develops, it is very easy to fix before the finish has begin to set up very much.

Only after the first hour of drying will I leave the rod unattended for the final drying cycle.

As others do, I use my power wrapper for both applying finish and the final drying if I am only working on a single rod. If I am cycling through a bunch of rods, I will let the rod be on the wrapper for the first 10 minutes, and will then transfer to the drum dryer for overnight drying.

I have a variable speed on my drum dryer as well but will generally set it for about 8 rpm or so.

Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2011 02:47AM by roger wilson.

Joel - I apply finish at about 150 - 200 rpm. Load brush, hit pedal and let the finish go on. Come back and feather it to knock out the high ridges (looks like a spiral otherwise) and make the ridges go long ways. This feathering part I do with the rod not moving - lightly stroke long ways, turn the rod a bit, stroke - until I do all the way around. Sometimes I will make a couple strokes back the other direction if I feel there is a little build up on one end of the run. To Jim's point I use a quality brush. My preference is a flat shader.

I use the same techniques on guides. Takes about 5 min max to put finish on a rod. As soon as the finish is on, I pop it on the dryer and leave until time for coat #2 or cured. The letting it sit and turn method works, but I have just as much success with this method and I don't have to worry about coming back and checking up on it or rotating it again.

-----------------
AD

As you can see, everyone has their own method...as do I. Try some of these things you are reading here and see if one of them works for you.

I might suggest you applying some epoxy to a junk piece of blank you may have laying around. Try a few different methods by doing several 2-3" runs of epoxy along the blank. Best of luck.

Thanks to all for your advice. I am now spoilt for choice. I will definitely attempt soem of these techmniqiues on a scrap piece of blank and determine which works for me.

This website truely is a great resource!! I could never have gleaned all this info from books and other sites.

Thanks again.

I have all kinds of trouble getting a level finish on butt wraps, too. I've been placing my finish on while the rod is turning on a 4 MPH motor. I've been using a brush, but have been hesitant to brush on the finish because of introducing air bubbles. I've also tried to finish the butt while rotating by hand.

I thought if you actually brushed on the finish it would create bubbles.

Bruce Tomaselli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have all kinds of trouble getting a level finish
> on butt wraps, too. I've been placing my finish
> on while the rod is turning on a 4 MPH motor.
> I've been using a brush, but have been hesitant to
> brush on the finish because of introducing air
> bubbles. I've also tried to finish the butt while
> rotating by hand.
>
> I thought if you actually brushed on the finish it
> would create bubbles.



Bruce, I would suggest you get a faster motor for applying finish. You're using a drying motor. That is painfully slow for finish application.

I think mine is slow at 24rpm...but it gets the job done.

Bruce -

IF you apply a heavy first coat, you will introduce bubbles. What I do is to apply a thin primary coat, this "seals" the thread/label and prevents the release of air on the, subsequently heavier, second and final coat. Hope that helps.

Jim -

I'll give it a try. I've been putting on a heavy first coat.
Thanks

I have tried the quality brush, lengthways stokes and setting to spin immediately and it certainly has produced a better finish than I have achieved previously. Stil lgetting a bit a uneveness over the decals. I hope that this will go away after the final 2 coats.
Thanks to all who gave advice.