Just back from a fly fishing trip to Alaska (Coho fishing was super hot this year) with several of my newly built rods. One of them is an RX8+ 8wt that I built with American Tackle NIRLF ceramic "fly" guides. One of the guides got bent down about 30 degrees from normal and when I tried to bend it the 30 degrees back, it just snapped off. So I was curious if this is a common problem with these guides in particular or all titanium ceramic type fly guides? More specifically, would the Fuji TLSGs be less likely to break off in a similar circumstance?

I actually am considering replacing all of the guides on this rod with Recoil snakes due to the breakage issue. For the type of fishing we do where we are hiking through brush and mud, standard snake guides seem to be less prone to damage.

By the way, the rod fishes great with these American Tackle guides, and I love the way that ceramic guides feel when a fish is running and taking line. I just need a bit more robustness.

Drew

I can't say that I've had any more failures with the titanium framed guides than with standard steel guides. However, I've not had any break after a single flex and return incident. Most often, they have to be bent back and forth several times for that to happen.

Frankly, the day of the metal framed guide should have ended 30 years ago. Nylon frames make a lot more sense and would be in keeping with modern blank technology.

..............

I use those guides on some of my fly rod builds and have not had that problem. They do get bent from time to time and I carefully bend them back. I have had problems with rings popping out (3 times now) but I don't know if it is due to the frame material or the way the guide is designed. I only use Ti frames for stripping guides so I don't really have anything to compare them to. My Fuji Cermets stripping guides have never done this but their cost makes them out of the question normally. Having said that, I have gone back to snakes. RECs for higher end rods and your basic snake (or single wire ) for everything else.

Quinn

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> Frankly, the day of the metal framed guide should
> have ended 30 years ago. Nylon frames make a lot
> more sense and would be in keeping with modern
> blank technology.
>
> ..............


Tom, I agree with this, if only because nylon, unlike metal, cannot rust. It makes sense on so many levels -- but is anyone listening to you? Will we ever see viable guides made from something other than metal? It seems kind of silly that with all the technology that goes into blanks, so little has gone into guide frames, but then again, what do I know?

The cost to set up a separate mold for each guide frame type and size would be substantial, but the end result is a guide that ultimately costs less per unit, would flex with the rod, never rust, be more durable, etc. It will happen, but not any time soon.

...........

Drew,

Yes that is common with NIRLF. How common? I dont know...... but common enough in my rod room to make changes.

DR

Duane-Kind of confirms how it appears to me. I know the complete history of this rod and made every cast it's made and know I did not abuse or previously bend the guide in question. It got bent down when fouled with the line during casting, and snapped when bent back into position.

Since I like the feel of an all ceramic guide fly rod, I will likely replace all the guides with TLSGs though they are prohibitively expensive!


Drew

Drew,

Amen on the expensive!

I've found titanium to NOT be a superior material by far. It may be lighter in weight, but that is all I'll give it. SS13 guide frames have been real good to me.

DR

What about Minima 4s

Bill - willierods.com

I have had experience having to "reform" a Fuji #30 titanium spin guide, and it was very difficult to work it back into shape. I worked it quite a bit, and it never broke, has been in service probably 3 years since, and shows no problems. Fuji titanium frames are very rigid and tough. My experience with Amtak titanium isn't quite so positive. I've experienced (spin guides only( guides that were easily bent, and one broke when bent back. I think for the weight advantage over a properly designed salt water capable stainless, titanium doesn't make a lot of sense. You can have $100 on a spinning rod just in guides.