Going to build a 6'6 2 piece rod using an okuma Avenger -A 40 series reel Don't have it and was wondering if anyone has used them
What butt size guide did you find worked well with it Thinking a 20 butt 25 ??

Thanks

Bill - willierods.com

Mono or braid?

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Both ?? So I am told it is a present for the father. I was thinking Alconite

I have a Shimano sedona 500 that looks to be about the same size ??

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 10:42AM by bill boettcher.

I'd go with a 12mm M series.

I was thinking of picking up some more M guides to play with one of my spinners.
Got to talk to the son For some reason he was telling me he liked the large butt guides
maybe a store bought rod ??

8-10 line would work with that Hmmmm

His father keeps his equipment under guard It is hard for him to get near them . guess he takes care of them

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

[www.okumafishingteam.com]

Being a 40 sized reel, I would look toward a 25 or 30 (20 or 25 match guide) for the butt guide, just to be on the safe side. The 20 would likely work, but if he would decide to use a stiffer mono it may not be the best option. The shaft on that reel will probably sit a fair amount further off the rod than a little ultralite Sedona 500 reel, not to mention the spool diameter will probably be close to 50% wider.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 12:08PM by Joe Vanfossen.

thanks for the info Joe Since the son was saying about the larger butt guide the 25 may be the way to go

This guy seems to be fussy about his gear.

Bill - willierods.com

I agree with Joe.
Since the reel may be a 40 size reel, I would likely go with a size 30 butt guide.

I build a lot of rods that size with reels from 20-40. I will use 25 or 30 depending on the size of the reel. Most often, I will go with the size 30.

Roger

I've used the size 12 M-series for 20# mono and had no problems. I think you will find that it will cast better with the 12 than the 30's, the height of the guide is more important than the actual size of the guide. 12 mm's is egual to .47 inches, I've yet to see a line more than 0.1 inches so it should go through the hole in the 12mm guide just fine.

Mark,
I agree that it could very well be the right guide for the rod.
The best way to know would be to tape on a proposed set of guides with a few different options available and do some test casting with the heaviest proposed line, and the biggest proposed reel.

Then, the person doing the test casting can make the final decision on the best guide to meet the particular needs of the particular rod.

Sometimes I just think that there is simply too much emphasis on putting the tiniest guides on a rod that can be fit on a rod. Sure, most line will go through even very tiny guides.

But, just because the line goes through the guide, does not make that guide the best guide for that particular rod, that particular user of the rod, or that particular blank.

Every user is different. Every blank is different, Every requirement is different.

As Mr. Kirkman has said many many times in the past - us the right guide on the right blank at the right spot on that blank for the particular use that that guide is going to have to do at the time.

That may very well mean putting a very tiny guide on that spot on that particular guide.
Or, conversely, it may mean putting a very very large guide on that spot on that particular blank at that spot.

Be safe and be appropriate.

Roger

Mark,

Out of curiosity, what distance range are you putting the 12mm M frames from the spool face? What size range of reels, and lure weights involved? I have no problem using high framed guides with smaller rings, but my only experience working with a 12mm butt guide on a spinning rod was for a light power backpacking rod for a buddy. I used a 12mm Y frame to be sure it would fit in the tube. While the casting performance was acceptable, it certainly wasn't optimal. It was just one of those cases where compromises had to be made.

Perhaps I need to rethink the way I layout my spinning rods, and will have to do some more tinkering the next time I do a spinning rod.

Joe

High frame type 25 for me.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
> I agree that it could very well be the right guide
> for the rod.
> The best way to know would be to tape on a
> proposed set of guides with a few different
> options available and do some test casting with
> the heaviest proposed line, and the biggest
> proposed reel.
>
> Then, the person doing the test casting can make
> the final decision on the best guide to meet the
> particular needs of the particular rod.
>
> Roger

Roger I don't mean to be argumentative and hope that it didn't come off that way. You have stated much more eloquently than I the exact point that I'm trying to make; builders need to experiment with new set ups and see what works for their build. I seem to keep hearing time after time in different topics here and other forums, that you can't use a 12mm guide for the stripper, it has to be 1/2 the size of the spool size, or it has to be this, ect, ect. I haven't found that to be true through experimentation, I hope that people will give guides smaller than the norm a chance in one of their builds before they say that you have to build it a given way. I only hope that people that read this forum will keep an open mind instead of the old I've always done it this way, and that's the only way that works.

Joe Vanfossen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
>
> Out of curiosity, what distance range are you
> putting the 12mm M frames from the spool face?
> What size range of reels, and lure weights
> involved? I have no problem using high framed
> guides with smaller rings, but my only experience
> working with a 12mm butt guide on a spinning rod
> was for a light power backpacking rod for a buddy.
> I used a 12mm Y frame to be sure it would fit in
> the tube. While the casting performance was
> acceptable, it certainly wasn't optimal. It was
> just one of those cases where compromises had to
> be made.
>
> Perhaps I need to rethink the way I layout my
> spinning rods, and will have to do some more
> tinkering the next time I do a spinning rod.
>
> Joe

Joe, I've used them on a variety of rods in several different powers. One of the heavier rods that I've built and used is a St Croix Avid 3C70MHF, built as a spinning rod, I use it for a Northern rod, it's spooled with 20# mono on a Pflueger Trion GX7 reel, lures used are between 3/8 and 3/4oz. The diameter of the reel is about 40mm, and it feeds and cast like a dream. I usually will test cast the rod with the stripper guide tapped in place at 20 inches from the spool face. I will cast it and look for bunching at the stripper, if i have bunching I will move the stripper ahead or back until it will cast the way I want it to. Most strippers will be set between 18 and 22 inches when done, Test casting will be the key to guide placement, a 30mm guide placed incorrectly will cast as poorly as will a 12mm placed incorrectly. On a side note the M-Series guides are much taller than a comparable VS or V series of the same size. Thanks Mark

Mark,

Thanks, that is very helpful. I've always tried to place my guides so that the outside of the rings lies on a straight line between the reel shaft and choker guide. Doing so has always required a 16mm M or 20mm Y at least to follow the line path I set up with most freshwater sized reels, and keep the butt guide under 24" from the reel. I've not tinkered with bringing a smaller ringed guide that close to the reel because I didn't feel it would have enough height to do the job, time to tinker.

I try to keep Batson VS, Alps XY, and some M guides on hand. It's good just for the sake of comparison, though I use the taller framed guides.

Joe

Mark,
Several years ago, I had a client bring something to my attention that I really hadn't thought about before.

i.e. he urged the need to have guides sized so that he felt 0 effort, and 0 line deflection on the line when he was retrieving the cast after casting heavy spoons for northerns and musky all day long.

He preferred to use a spinning reel; rather than a casting reel.

As a result, he had me rebuild several rods that had guides that were too small to his liking.

In particular he had asked me to change the stripper guides to a larger guide.

It was his wish, that when retrieving a 1/2 to 1 oz lure time after time after time, he wanted the line to see a straight line from the tip to the spool of the reel - no matter the position of the reel spool,

To translate it to different terms, he wanted to see the line just touch the entire circumference of the stripper as the line was being retrieved.

If the stripper spool was either too small or too short, the line would either be making a sharp angle at some spot on the spool, or it would simply touch part of the spool as the line was being retrieved.

He felt that for the hundreds of casts that he would make in a day, that the lesser line angle, and the reduced friction of the line as it was retrieved back onto the line spool translated to a less tiring day, and better attention paid to each and every cast which in the end resulted in more fish caught at the end of the day.

Summary,

Test casting and casting in general is part of the guide size equation.
But for many fishermen, the line retrieve is a part of the line handling equation that is just as important as the cast of the line.

All good points and you are right on.

Be safe
Roger

Roger are you aware that there is a spinning rod set up where the line gets on the spool in a different manner during retrieve-

Many who have actually tried the Microwave Guides System are rethinking their concepts.

Sure is nice to have one spinning rod that can deal with different size reel spools, different lines and lure weights and use smaller running guides at the same time.

Scroll down the linked page and take a look - [www.swamplandtackle.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 10:55AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
Sure.
But that is not what the client wanted.
Roger

Roger

Are you saying a line path like the cone of flight straight from the tip to the butt and spool

Bill - willierods.com

Mark,

I just pulled out my box of spinning guides, and low and behold I found that there was enough frame material in the 12mm M frame guide that I could tweak it to get the height of a 20mm Y frame. That only leaves concern as to how sensitive the guide train will be to change, but that will be left to experiment. Personally, I very rarely change line types or diameters, but if I put rods in the hands of people who do, I need to know how they will perform.

Joe